you are going to argue to me that a creator can come from nothing, but a creation cannot?

how the fuck does it work for you and not me? yet you claim that as logical?

If that creator can transcend all bounds of human understanding, as it most certainly can as evidenced by the mere existence of all creation, then the creator does not need to be created

I argue that the creation itself transcend all bounds of human understanding, so most certainly there is NO evidence of a creator

Separation of church and state comes from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote, none of the founding documents of the U.S. have “separation of church and state.”

You say in the beginning there was nothing, and that nothing became something under its own power even before it existed to will itself into existence, which goes outside all science and logic

its the first fucking amendment @Andrules

that letter you spoke of was in reference to that

Dumbass. Read it again

"Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

If the creation itself is outside of all human understanding, then you must admit that there are things far outside of your own understanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHw84evlzHc

as must you

The government can’t mandate what religion you participate in. Not that the government had to rule out religion before it can a law.

You're right. God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yoo41URt-E

there is no evidence of your god. You cannot prove that something needs a creator save the creator. that is just fucking insane. You need to re-evaluate your logic.

A universe cannot come from nothing.

yes, yes it can

And there is no evidence for your points.

No, it cannot.

I just posted the math

denial in the face of evidence is a liberal trait

be better than that

also note that I state that the universe CAN come from nothing, not that it DOES come from nothing... on the flip side I am being told EXACTLY HOW IT STARTED was a cosmic being speaking things into existence from nothing.

if you define "god" as "the universe" then we can agree. The universe created itself. If you think "god" is a conscious being that has a hand in purposely creating, destroying and designing... then you got problems

And the math is illogical.

An effect must have a cause.

If you look at the complexity of the universe and assume ItS aLl RaNdOm then you have problems.

lol wow.. you guys are fucking morons... we will never agree.. so just let me enjoy my freedom of speech

Here's another way using a different method

It is documented historical fact written down by Jews and pagans that Jesus existed and was crucified. Those same historians wrote most of what we know about the ancient world, and to discount their writing of Jesus means we discount pretty much everything else we know about Rome and Greece

So only an idiot can deny Jesus existence

so the existance of a wandering priest named jesus is proof of god creating the universe? WTF

Notice I said existence, not miracles, divinity etc

there is proof of a muhammad too.. are you saying islam is the right religion as well?

Stop acting like a liberal