Message from @shinsoo
Discord ID: 504772575105253386
>ignore the nationalization, that's capitalism now
>ignore the mass privatisation, that's socialist now
if you want us to throw memes at each other, that's fine
i'd prefer an actual discussion
A government run economy is inherently not capitalist
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Year_Plan
Technically, it is. Capitalism is an economic system in which trade, industries, and the means of production are largely or entirely privately owned and operated for profit.
State capitalism is usually described as an economic system in which commercial (i.e. for-profit) economic activity is undertaken by the state, with management and organization of the means of production in a capitalist manner, including the system of capital accumulation, wage labor, and centralized management.
Simply the capitalist class was represented by the state. That is, state capitalism is a merely a flavor of capitalism, a monopolistic one, without market.
>privately owned
>the state owns it
These are contradictory statements
Against the mainstream: Nazi privatization in 1930s Germany
the nazis privatised as much as they could
they encouraged cartels and monopolies and were uninterested in economic competition, but nationalisation wasn't their focus
taking care of the civilian sector was seen as a waste of government manpower and resources, they wanted to focus everything on warfare
>1930
>four year plan was in 36
Oh boy
this might surprise you, but 1936 is in the 30s
there's a neat section that explains their privatisation policies
and how they cooperated with businesses
fun fact, my university's main building is named after a private company which used slave labour from nazi camps
You're not addressing the Nazi control of the economy, which was part of the '36 4 Year Plan
You appear to be avoiding it, in fact
because it's irrelevant
the government had *huge* influence over the economy, as governments often do, by giving contracts and funding
in the nazi's case, they had even more influence than usual because they **privatised** a lot, and provided businesses with slave labour
but all this influence doesn't negate the fact that they relied on privatisation and capitalism
>it's irrelevant that they controlled the economy
No, that makes it not capitalist, m8
<:wewlad:303868350134747143>
they didn't control the economy, that's the thing
If someone can walk in and tell you exactly how to run your business, take it from you, determine imports and exports, you don't actually own it
they tried to privatise as much as possible and leave businesses to their own devices unless it helped the military
governments and businesses cooperating is a constant reality under capitalism
>they tried to privatize as much as possible
Not under the 4 year plan
The German governments goal was rearmament at any cost
And the government appropriating your shit and controlling imports and exports directly, controlling the largest industries etc is not private ownership
so much for the tolerant left
do you have an any article or source that goes into detail for the 4-year plan? the wiki page doesn't explain how much influence the government had over the economy, it just vaguely mentions "increasing nationalisation"
my understanding remains that the nazis only steered the economy as much as necessary for their war efforts, preferring to privatise
if it turns out that they completely seized the economy for the plan, then i'd be surprised but concede the point that they weren't capitalist for those 4 years (out of the 11 years they were in power)
you also keep bringing up imports and exports, as if those are *ever* unregulated in capitalist countries
the state worked with businesses to eliminate competition, that's not unusual
the mises article is blatant propaganda, claiming that *any* government interference, even mild spending for job creation, would inevitably lead to socialism. it also called the nazi's economic policy effectively keynesian, despite keynesian economics being the standard in most developed nations, without leading to socialism (and the nazis privatising a hell of a lot more than keynesianism would support)
the historylearningsite article is very interesting, although it makes no mention of nationalisation or socialism
now, the final link is what satisfies me the most. it mentions the specific industries that the state controlled (mining and arms industry, anything directly related to rearmament), and describes how the government cooperated with businesses like IG Farben (my university's namesake)