Message from @princeofdolalmroth

Discord ID: 571978221025886228


2019-04-28 08:18:41 UTC  

you can't read the bible literally in this sense, just like you can't read it literally in the sense of Daniel 9:24-26

2019-04-28 08:19:38 UTC  

There's no reason to think that part was anything but literal. Else evening and morning, and the creation of celestial bodies to help us determine time of day, seems like pointless writing on behalf of Moses

2019-04-28 08:20:31 UTC  

Daniel 9:24-26 refers to sevens which translated from the original hebrew meant weeks, and yet the prophecy concerning in this chapter say at what time in history the Messiah would appear, and when one does the calculation properly, it matches up within a year of christ's birth and death

2019-04-28 08:22:28 UTC  

the book of daniel is set approximately 490 years before christ's death

2019-04-28 08:23:00 UTC  

which is exactly what is predicted in the book through the prophesy of daniel.

2019-04-28 08:23:38 UTC  

But he is, of course, a prophet

2019-04-28 08:24:15 UTC  

The creation isn't about prophecy, it's about history. It was written after the events it refers to, while Daniel is written before the events it refers to

2019-04-28 08:25:21 UTC  

and we also need to understand that the writers of the old testament were not secretaries of the holy spirit. Genesis got the order of creation exactly right, but the timeframe of how fast or slow is off.

2019-04-28 08:25:33 UTC  

And of course the context in which that Hebrew word "yom" is used, I'm inclined to take it literally when it says evening and morning

2019-04-28 08:26:51 UTC  

Remember days were measured from sunset to sunset

2019-04-28 08:29:15 UTC  

well, let me put it another way. we have never uncovered a fossil of any kind of human that appears in the same strata of rock as say, a dinosaur, yet genesis would tell me that at one point mankind and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time. also, based on the dimensions specified in Genesis concerning the Ark, and that god commands that a pair of each and every living creature on earth be put inside, it is literally impossible to fit that many creatures in the same confined space for almost 8 months without warping spacetime inside the ark to make the interior far larger than it actually is.

2019-04-28 08:30:14 UTC  

Then maybe a lot of them were dead?

2019-04-28 08:31:09 UTC  

Maybe there was not as much genetic diversity and so instead of a thousand kinds of dogs/wolves, there was just two or three

2019-04-28 08:32:26 UTC  

by that logic then there would be far less diversity than we see on the planet

2019-04-28 08:32:40 UTC  

case and point the different types of finches on the galapagos.

2019-04-28 08:32:44 UTC  

We think of a world covered in dinosaurs but in reality we haven't actually found that many fossils

2019-04-28 08:33:57 UTC  

Job 40:15-19

2019-04-28 08:34:45 UTC  

We've got ancient drawings of them

2019-04-28 08:34:52 UTC  

going back to one of my older points, the flood would have done nothing to distort our detection of the radiological cosmic background, and most physicist will tell you that that is an adequate means of measuring the age of the universe

2019-04-28 08:35:49 UTC  

Mankind has a lot of creativity but I don't see them inventing a monster in their heads that turns out to be real 5000 years later but predating the artist by 500 million years

2019-04-28 08:37:14 UTC  

65-150 million years to be precise. if it were only 5000 years old, and remember that Job is after genesis, then they would be still around.

2019-04-28 08:38:32 UTC  

maybe not where Job was, but they would have been referenced by many more cultures than just the Hebrew, especially since Job takes place after the events of Solomon (about 870-830BC)

2019-04-28 08:39:24 UTC  

Most Biblical scholars put Job as the oldest book

2019-04-28 08:41:44 UTC  

Job cannot be older than Genesis, otherwise job would be first in the bible, and from what I know Job was first written between the 7th and 4th century BC

2019-04-28 08:41:59 UTC  

The physical writing, not the event obviously

2019-04-28 08:42:24 UTC  

Job 22:16 references the flood. So we know it's after Noah

2019-04-28 08:43:01 UTC  

The sacrifice in Job 1:5 is of the patriarchal "rite" which is pre-Mosaic

2019-04-28 08:43:28 UTC  

Same for the daughters' inheritances in Job 42:15

2019-04-28 08:43:50 UTC  

And the measurement of his wealth in flocks instead of money, Job 42:12

2019-04-28 08:43:59 UTC  

keep in mind that in oral cultures the core details of a story are preserved very well, but the secondary details tend to fluctuate.

2019-04-28 08:44:26 UTC  

And for him to live 200 or so years, this happened for some time after the flood but not by the time of Moses

2019-04-28 08:45:12 UTC  

So I'd put him pre-Abraham

2019-04-28 08:45:26 UTC  

But not by much

2019-04-28 08:45:57 UTC  

it's reasonable to assume that the secondary details of the story changed over the possible millenniums. but here we ask, is it unreasonable to say that is Job were a big part of the story of the bible, surely he would have been mentioned in the details of Genesis?

2019-04-28 08:46:10 UTC  

or even exodus?

2019-04-28 08:46:36 UTC  

There's a lot of stuff left out, or even stuff included that may seem strange

2019-04-28 08:46:42 UTC  

Most people don't notice it

2019-04-28 08:47:54 UTC  

I'm Catholic so this may seem like a biased perspective but there's a ton of references to deuterocanonical books (rejected by Protestants). But to be fair there are actually Biblical references to books rejected by all Christians, and even books entirely lost forever.

2019-04-28 08:49:22 UTC  

the problem I've had with Genesis is that in oral cultures legendary details tend to seep in over the generations (usually after 120-130 years), so when the bible says "days" in genesis, I've never taken it to mean literal days. the new testament I've taken much more literally since the people who were in the events were still alive as the books were written down, in some cases as little as five years after the death of christ

2019-04-28 08:49:30 UTC  

And other books that we may not know what it refers to; could be books we still have, some we don't

2019-04-28 08:50:07 UTC  

Well I have to rely a bit on the supernatural for this; God's word isn't gonna be lost.