can you tell us?

does having an individual nature not clash with being a representative of God?

i'm not sure. it's your god we're discussing here. you seem to know more than i do

i've already asked if you can tell us - it's you using the word here. granted, it's pretty common for people to have personal abstractions of "Man" so you can fire that out there as a semantic blank and have people fill in the gaps with their own definitions, which you can deal with a number of ways

i'm more curious about the question than people's answers. that's why i asked. i guess we'll both wait to hear from the others before we get our answers

i'm not shy, but i didn't use the word and i rarely use it. i'll define it when i do though - and the reason i asked you is exactly because i suspected you asked in the first place just so you could piggy back on someone else's answer for whatever reason

there are people out there that do that, you know!

i'm not opting in to this one, but seeing as you had to go there, i'll be keeping my eye on how you deal with this definition of "Man" when you're talking to others

it's not that i can't or am scared to define it lol. it's funny that you've both jumped on that instant conclusion. i don't want to define it for a few reasons and... i can promise you fear isn't one of them

hahhahahaha

no kids over here. don't want them either. as for jlp, he got thrown up on my recommended videos list on yt. i think it was a compilation of him or something.

ah yeah that's right... i caught his talk with gavin mcinnes, and wished it was longer

same here, narratory, with the occasional show of respectable values and intelligence

occasional.

he's not the only peterson i've got my eye on at the moment. jordan peterson's on my radar these days. i'm unsure about him too, but he's gaining a lot of influence

has jesse had jordan peterson on the show? i reckon they'd both get on pretty well

@PastPresentFuture can an atheist or agnostic be a man?

ah, nice. i have one of his books coming

i automatically have to accept god to be rebuilt as a man, according to you and jesse?

i assume there are many men out there who'd love jesse's help, but at the same time are put off by the religious aspects that come along with it

is it not possible to "rebuild the man" from the ground up, morals and value systems, motivations, life-goals, everything, without having to impose religious belief?

hm. alright

what if they don't? are they not a man? are they evil?

that's true

but they can't be a man?

some might say that's thinking less of them for it

i hope, when you do start to help someone or if someone confides in you, they don't feel any judgment off the back of that. i hope they'll be ignorant of the fact that you live by this distinction, because, if they are sincere with their will to change but at the same time they don't want to or just can't accept god sincerely yet, then you might still be able to help them. if they get a whiff of judgment or being categorised or up against the silent knowledge that, if they haven't accepted some religious doctrine, then they're not really "one" with you, it can be so much more difficult to be effective

you have to understand that a lot of people will struggle with that aspect of things - just as you struggle with it too, i imagine, because it seems to be a central point here. but just as having your beliefs might alienate you from certain groups, you have to know that not having your beliefs inherently alienates others from you. that's the kind of thing people pick up on when you get into serious communication with them

unfortunately, you don't need to say it outright. it's the implications of your definition of man, and how nobody who doesn't accept god can not be that. they can't be a man or even live like a man without god, according to you - they can only pretend to be a man

me too, because this part confuses me

lol

i'm glad you said that

speak on it, please

i like them because we learn from each other, when we're both open to it. communication that isn't just empty is one of the main things i enjoy on this planet

@PastPresentFuture do you follow the idea that a man who isn't a man is a woman, and hence, an evil person?

alright cool. that's one thing i haven't been able to wrap my head around so far, not for a lack of understanding

hmmm so

this is a very strict, specific definition on what it is to be a man. it seems inspired by jesse's definition of man, which is, as i can gather, the ideal human being; the perfect christian male, and no other type of male can be a man. do i have that right?

your input is appreciated here, csquare

lol

i've heard jesse say anger comes from the devil, but i've also heard him say it has more to do with being a woman - i can't quote him on those because i can't remember, but those 2 had me a bit confused

haha, i do too, narratory. he's got a sense of humour for sure, and doesn't hide it! the only problem is, half the bloody time you can't tell if he's joking or not when he says some of the things he does

it's part of his appeal to me actually

well, not saying that we aren't -allowed- to be angry, but if we are, then we're either beta, a woman, or of the devil (hope you don't mind me bringing jesse's words into this and chucking them next to yours. if you do, just say)

again, this is about what's not being said. the subtle implications of this definition of man

no doubt anger can be destructive as all fuck. it's never helped me either - in fact it's taken me further away from who i need to be. the anger didn't make me feel beta though, or womanly, or of the devil. for example: i used to be really into debating when i was younger, and i was very naive, ill-informed and misled, in that i only wanted to win a debate, not learn from this person or journey with them to new insight. i used to say i got so fired up because i was passionate for the talk, but really, it's because i was stupid

i noticed that i could stay on track in a debate until i got angry, at which point i'd get dirty as hell with it

i worked on my anger. i'm pretty free of the bullshit it used to throw up in my brain

i just bring that up as an addition to what you said, ppf. now i think there wasn't much point, lol

i wanted to ask if it's possible for someone to feel angry in response to a given situation without necessarily "having anger," in the sense of carrying it around with them etc

yeah csquare, i'm with you on that one. a distinction someone made for me which really helped was that between a reaction and a response, and how, in tense situations, you might need to take a few seconds before engaging something, so you formulate a proper response instead of just reacting

respect, ppf

ah, ppf, ty for answering. i'm in a skype call. give me 5-10, then i'll read

thanks for answering man @PastPresentFuture

yeah, fear does operate a lot of the same ways as anger. for me, being strong isn't about never feeling fear. it's about what you do with it, or don't. same with anger, or situations that would provoke anger

jay, could you say your fear of being wrong is something to do with your self-image, either how you see yourself or want others to see you?

what happens when you're proven wrong?

it sticks to you unless you let it change you. if people see that happening, it's hard for them to stick it to you

csquare, better keep certain conversations on your own terms. not where it can fuck with your livelihood

am i the only one from the uk here?

cool

heh

it's a sinking ship

this is the summer of violence

knifecrime and robberies are through the roof at the moment

aye, that whole tommy robinson thing is... unfortunately typical of the uk

there are better places to be, no doubt, but for now... i'm resting from travelling. focusing on building up my life and all that good shit

i'm getting old now. all that movement makes me tired

vice versa!

you guys need it just as much as we do

what a world

i think i know what you mean with that

maybe you better pop it

or expand it

probably expand it

@PastPresentFuture how do you do that with the custom "Playing" status?

i was trying to see if i could do that earlier

tyty

will take a look soon

was there no show today?

ah! yeah i forgot he mentioned that

cool

sometimes

lol you 2

time for a drink. cheers to all of you, pleasure to meet you guys btw. and cheers to this weird, troubled yet beautiful world

you off, csquare?

which of peterson's books do you have btw @PastPresentFuture ?

i've got maps of meaning on the way to me

reading stephen king's book on writing atm though

i should specify lol, jordan peterson

absolutely. it's really got my motivation fired back up too after all this time

oh cool. i wouldn't listen to anything non-fiction unless it's in the voice of the writer

hahaha i haven't seen this. will put it on now

but i have heard peterson admit he sounds like kermit

hahaha

lol this is pretty good

i'll be seeing jordan peterson and sam harris in july

they've got a bunch of debates planned because, as you might know, they disagree on a bunch of shit

hahaha i'd be disappointed too