https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2020/10/15/sp101520-a-new-bretton-woods-moment

@KermitTheFrog

just following up on your exploration of libertarianism and where it falls on the political spectrum

the political landscape is not a linear scale

it is 2 dimensional

the up down axis is basically 0% government at the top and 100% government at the bottom

the left right axis is arbitrary and depends on what population, where, when

example, Kennedy democrats would have been in favor of several things that Trump republicans are in favor of, so it's the same nation, different time period

if you have 100% liberty and 0% government, then you can't move left or right of center because that would require using some sort of government to enforce that preference

if you have 100% government and 0% liberty (communism, aka statism) then there are no preferences, only what you're allowed to do/have/say/wear/eat/etc

look up The Nolan Chart on google for tests/more info

also, I do not give leftists the term "liberal" anymore, as their bent is not predominantly towards liberty as a classical liberal (e.g. Thomas Jefferson) was

I would suggest that, unlike the chart I posted above, the shape has shifted into more of a rectangle than a square, with the right being higher and closer to libertarians, while the left has shifted down and is closer to statists. This makes sense, as generally the right is in favor of less government and the left is in favor of more government

this is why you see things like the liberty movement and the tea party within the right side of the aisle, whereas you see socialists like AOC and Bernie on the left

I think the chart has shifted to this now:

the Nolan Chart does completely break people free from the false "left right" paradigm that they are led to believe is the political spectrum

it's useful in some ways

as I said, I think the square diagram isn't exactly right

no, that's what the up down axis represents

the top is capitalism the bottom is communism

free market economics is capitalism...no central control...that's libertarian society

no it's not

communism is at the bottom of the chart I posted, and libertarianism is at the top of the chart I posted

your chart is rotated so I'm not going to refer to it

omg lol no it's not

communism in it's true form is not anarchistic. communism in the form it has had thus far throughout history has been within an anarchistic world

true communism is worldwide

so far we've only had communist nations

@米饭和面条 Keynesian economics is centrally planned...communist

Austrian economics is laissez faire...capitalist...libertarian

have you even ever heard of Austrian economics?

Von Mises? Rothbard? Hayek?

read Rothbard and tell me that Austrian economics isn't akin to libertarianism

you said that the left right axis on the compass is economic. now you're saying that libertarianism has the other major economic theory tied to it

exactly

you're confused

the vertical axis on the compass is economic

it is

Buy Bitcoin

it's capitalist money

is libertarianism or communism centrally controlled?

is Austrian economics or Keynesian economics centrally controlled?

I rest my case

communism is literally centrally controlled

you're out of your mind

you can say that communism is stateless

doesn't make it so

well, the state controls everything, so I'm not really sure how that works

how is the common ownership of the means of production to be managed?

IT NEEDS A STATE

commies can say they want a stateless society

by function, communism must have a state

I don't really care what their definition says

I care about function

I beat commies in debate by pointing at the failure of all of the communist nations that have existed and failed

I guess that's why it's called the CCP

I guess what I'm driving at is that socialism and communism are not exactly the same, but they're close enough that IDGAF about the minor differences between them

both are horrible

they're both centrally planned garbage

I'm tired of arguing with you. Persist in your ignorance if you must

The fact that you talk to commies to learn about their ideology means your head is being filled with lies in an Orwellian way. They hijack words, they constantly move goalposts, they twist things around using logical fallacies in an effort to validate their decision to join the commie team by recruiting you in an ideological Ponzi scheme.

I didn't say you were trying to join their team

show where I said that

yes...do you speak English?

"in an effort to validate their decision to join the commie team by recruiting you..."

meaning they are attempting to recruit you in an effort to validate their own decision

all commies literally always are recruiting

you don't debate them...you debate Marx

I agree there's a lot that Marx doesn't understand which is why that's what we pick at in debate

the modern day commie ideologues are twisting away from Marxism for that very reason

doesn't change that they're full of shit

now you're putting words in my mouth

I said don't debate them...debate Marx

exactly

his ideas are...so you debate those ideas

you do not debate the commies because the commies will misrepresent

because I posted a political compass chart based on previous conversation

trying to help someone understand that there is more than left and right

then Absinence chimed in trying to show his dominance by stating that political compasses are shit

bruh, you're a J on the Myers Briggs...I have no time to debate Js

not if it's in that particular human's nature

let's ignore things no one can prove

ok...

irrelevant to use religion in this argument

bottom line is what gets you hard gets you hard and what gets you wet gets you wet

as long as you're not engaging in non-consentual activities which includes activities with animals or children or dead people, then you do you