raqdog (Discord ID: 497047088216014883), page 1
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How come democrats don't understand how racist, misogynistic and xenophobic they are?
Sometimes I have to explain to people who are openly racist that they should be voting democrat. If they really hate blacks then vote democrat...
@trash liberals or democrats have a higher IQ on average than conservatives.
But I've seen it divided up like this before where people have studied it:
Social conservative < liberal < libertarian (economic conservative)
Social conservatives have the lowest IQs, and conservatives who are more opinionated about deregulation and the economy (basically they are libertarians) have the highest IQs
Yeah, let's just populate a bunch of different planets and test out all these political models
Socialism probably works well in space and in hostile environments, where the people selected for the missions don't sap all the life and resources out of their colleagues. It will take a few generations before it falls apart
@Silkiri Isolating a lot of high functioning individuals from earth and sending them to Mars would eventually result in a high functioning society, where the environment is so hostile that you have to be extremely clever to exist their. I dunno what kind of culture they would develop there. I do think socialism works well when everyone starts off nearly equal in competence and ability though. So if socialism would work anywhere, mars would be an ideal condition. Mainly because they aren't going to send a bunch of morons.
@THE-BRIAN 10% of the population falls below an IQ and competence that allows them to be effective at even the most basic jobs. Not only can they not perform very menial task, they in all likelihood would cause more problems than solve anything. Simply giving these people money to help them is not a good solution. And what about drug addicts? Handing money to someone with a really bad drug addiction is basically killing them.
Also, crime rates in areas where everyone is poor are low. Areas where there is a disparage of wealth, lots of poor and lots of wealthy, are where crime rates are highest. So being poor does not necessarily mean there will be crime. It's the introduction of wealth or money into poor neighborhoods that increases crime.
Right, you can have socialism even if there are different abilities. But it doesn't work out that well
You are talking about equal opportunity now
Egalitarian societies advocate [email protected], not outcome
Socialist societies advocate equal outcome
You asked me if I knew what socialism is, and I said "equal outcome"
So you are referring to socialism as equal access to education, jobs and medicine?
Ok but what ethnic group currently out performs all others in academia?
Because it's important, because this group isn't given equal access because of their ethnicity
And they are actually thriving even more than those that are given better access because of their ethnicity
By subsidizing people's education with tax dollars?
Asians are thriving in academia and they need to out perform other ethnic groups in test scores and now they need to take personality test too
We shouldn't have to. The point is it could be divided anyway. Poor, rich
It just happens to be divided by ethnicity
What is most uneducated group in American society?
Well the way you change your class is through education
Because it's a clearly demarcated group.
I see you mention profit again, why shouldn't someone profit off of it?
Someone is profiting when tax dollars are used.
If anything, they profit even more, reduce their efficiency, because they are absolved of risk due to government backing, and they students will be worse off
Water isn't typically owned by the government. And when it is (read cadillac desert) it is a disaster.
If the institution needs to put perform its competitors, it will continue to improve itself. If it's told it will be subsidizing whether or not it's good at what it does or not, they are absolved of risk and absolved of needing to out perform eachother
Yeah but you are talking about a country that idolizes the United States
They collapsed during the Cold War because of communism, it did not incentivize their factories and government backed industries to do anything but pass preplanned inspections
They would get everything working for a brief period during inspections and then let it all fail the rest of the time. Human beings are incentive driven creatures. We do the bare minimum to keep up
It's good to think about education like a right, I like that
But it is like a commodity, it's an investment in yourself
I think the only thing that kept the Soviet Union going so long was incentive to compete with America
Yeah, it's a good business model, I just don't think it's as good as capitalism
Capitalism is a good business model because it will quickly process and expunge other business models that don't work
Oh I see, well I would still think that medicine and education should be allowed to function under a capitalist umbrella
Student loan debts are out of control currently because the education systems are socializing
Government subsidizing and risk absolving
Programs that try provide access to education for those that can't obtain it otherwise are doing the exact opposite of what was intended.
The tuition rises because of government involvement. I don't think more government involvement would help. Schools need to demonstrate that they are in need of the money and this leads to Soviet Union type mess where you start to have teachers faking test score, attendance records, and just ruining the kids
The incentive needs to lie on just being a good school because the school down the street is also trying to be the best
The incentive shouldn't be, pass 50
Kids with an A and get a bonus at the end of the year. Or demonstrate that all your kids can pass this standardized test and the government will give you a grant for next year
The kids get passed along in this process, failing as they go, thinking that something is wrong with the system now and not them
But they aren't taught it's the school system, they are told its republicans or it's their race, or their class
Ok, the soviets were smart. But the problem is, they were smart about the wrong things when they became adults.
I'd say the typical Soviet Union citizen was not incentivized enough to contribute anything worth while
Take a distribution of Americans and soviets and yes, you will have some high performing and low performing individuals on as outliers
The majority of the population though needs incentive to produce
Think about it like this, this is a bit of a rabbit hole:
In the effort to make an artificially intelligent robot. The hardest hurdle to first overcome is to get the machine to even recognize objects
The whole world is just one big object to the machine, it can't distinguish anything
Because first, before it can distinguish an object, it needs to filter out what's not important
And similar to this the way AI is being constructed, the majority of our circuitry is not actually reading what's going on in the world, it's trying to filter it out
These filters mean that we have to have a goal in mind to even make sense of the world when we get out of bed. For instance, you don't see the world completely when you hop out of bed, you'd go insane and wouldn't even be able to move. All you see are your slippers and an alarm clock
It's a bit of a rabbits hole like I said, but if you follow this chain of logic a bit more, you realize how goal oriented someone needs to be to function at all.
Goal oriented may not translate completely to incentive. But we build a whole narrative for ourselves based on these models we choose, socialism or capitalism
Yeah explain that. You get snlt and it's like a currency?
I thought this version of socialism only applied to education and medicine. How do you rope workers into it?
Yeah I don't get it. Is it like social security?
Are all snlt equal? If you are a janitor or a high level official?
Can we ever erradicate scarcity though. Isn't it just relative. You'd think the USA was full of people at the poverty line. But that line is always adjusting itself
Those poor people all have iPhones, clean water, flat screen TVs
There will always be those type of people. The US Military, only allows someone to join if they have an ASVAB score above 85
If your ASVAB score falls below that, not only is there no position they can use you in, but in all likelihood you would cause more problems than help
And keep in mind, this is one of the most extensive human efforts achieved to determine how to keep the ranks full
For times of war that could determine the outcome of whether the nation lives and dies
10% of the population falls below this ASVAB score. There will always be homeless people and uneducated people, and people who we just don't know what to do with
And giving them money does not solve the issue.
Or giving them an equal share and telling them to work for snlt does not solve it
They will actively make anything they touch worse. Actually they can be quite industrious.
You can't just educate everyone to the same status
People are different in all sorts of ways, intelligence happens to be one of them
That's true. We have the best facilities in Nebraska where I am from
They send Ebola patients here all the time from across the world
We have the Warren Buffet cancer out patient center. That's like the pinnacle of capitalism combined with medicine
Prisoners??? At least we aren't running gulags
Have you even read the gulag archipelago??
I'd rather go to prison than quietly disappear
I think no matter what you do, the same leaders will always make to the top
If it will just continue to repeat itself?
It's the way hierarchal structures function
Hierarchies exist in animals in our ancestral chain that predates our abilities to climb trees
Hierarchies are how we function. Put 10 kids in a room and they will form a hierarchy
A hierarchy of who's tallest, who's smartest, who is better at hand stands, whatever you want
The same leaders will rise to the top for the same reasons in a socialist society
The benevolent leader you describe does not climb that hierarchy. And when he does he gets killed
That's probably even worse. Now we are talking about the 2 wolves voting to eat the 1 sheep
I think better education drives people away from socialism
Interesting to think that the computing solution is likely going to be brought about by a capitalist society
That's like predicting the weather more than a few days out
It's probably even more complicated than the weather. It's like chaos theory. Where the variables change to quickly ad dramatically to predict what the effect of a butterflies flapping its wings will be
Socialism thrives under war. Capitalism thrives better.
If you want socialism to work, there needs to be more of a communal goal other than to peacefully exist.
Capitalism is war, you compete daily to make yourself better than your competitors. Socialism is like a stagnant halt to progress, unless there is a bigger goal in mind, like getting to the moon or bankrupting the US in the Cold War.
But the individuals, I just don't see how they would feel motivated to do anything unless they are heavily propagandized by the state
Socialism IS a communal goal? Or socialism NEEDS a communal goal? That's the difference here
People who generate the most successful ideas and markets in a capitalist society are hardly ever driven by just profit. Their companies end up being sustained by it and thrive off of profit because people want more of it. And it's a useful byproduct that sustains more innovation
How do you see a Silicon Valley emerge in a socialist society?
Walgreens didn't even use a business model that accounts for profit. They accounted for number customer visits.
If they used a business model that focused on profit they wouldn't have even come up with the idea to place a store every few blocks
Their goal for the last year was to maintain the space station, as per congressional law
Our military is the largest threat deterrent and humanitarian effort on the planet
A business sustains it self on profit, but also on risk, gotta take risk
Well that's why the military is a deterrent
It's a very difficult metric to quantify. You can't list the number of conflicts you deter. You'll never know
Do they have the option to even want to?
Those are marvelous wars. A whole generation of people participated in them
Surgeons, drone technology, counter insurgency
Lots of good comes out of those wars. The people of Iraq were celebrating the US when they rolled in
We just shouldn't have hung around for 10 years after
Libya and Syria ya, they should've been more like Jordan
We keep the peace and we drop bombs, can't have it just one way
We do both. Not necessarily at the same time
Obama created isis when he refused to stay committed to holding Assad accountable
So do we let Assad murder his own citizens with poisonous gas?
Afghanistan has always been a shithole. That's why they set up shop there
Taliban sided with al qaeda. They picked a side
You are talking about before Russia invaded
No they didn't. The taliban was created by a bunch of propagandized kids. Kids who fled to Pakistan when Russia invaded and then came back to Afghanistan and enforced Sharia law
mujahideen, they were great. That was the most peaceful part of Afghanistan, in the north
Yeah we gave weapons to them, to bankrupt the soviets in the war, and it worked
Then the taliban rose to power when the refugees came back
A sharia law government that supports international terrorism? Yes
Well if by your definition that's a bad thing then I guess yes that was what we did
Well, anywhere the US puts boots on ground to start a war becomes a shithole, yes
Extremist flock to those areas to kill Americans
Not only do I support it, I participated in that, both Iraq and Afghanistan
I helped build a school, water wells, and detention facilities in Iraq. And I helped teach the Iraqi army about construction
And I drilled several water wells in Afghanistan
I dunno if there is any simple solution. I think some of the work we did to drill wells or build bridges is a disaster anyway
Those things just go into disrepair as soon as we leave, and they become dependent on the water or bridge after a few years, then it fails, and no one knows how to sustain it and it creates a void and is basically a disaster for anyone dependent on the infrastructure
Yeah, best thing would be to leave them be. But unfortunately they don't let us be
And you gotta commit to these wars when they start. Can't just half ass it
Because osama was holed up in Africa and Afghanistan
Extremist flocked to afganistsn though and Africa
That's where the indoctrination and camps were
That's where it was allows to develop and take on the form of international terrorism
As one of the most landlocked countries you can find, that use to be a land bridge between Europe and Asia, afganistan was extremely relevant and than all the sudden once we could fly farther than a few hundred miles without refueling it became irrelevant
Yeah, Alexander the Great had to make his way through Afghanistan to get to Indian and Asia
It produced the most heavily trafficked trade routes between Europe and Asia for centuries
Im just saying, it has very open borders, very diverse and free people
I'm surprised you've never heard of how important the trading routes were trough Afghanistan
It ruined Alexander the Great trying to gain control of the country
Ok, I dunno what you mean. It's a very easy country to gain access to, and had historically been so
That's why it was easy to set up terrorist training shops there
The Iraqi government was actively trying to gain info and probably even capture the few taliban in their country
Unfortunately for them, we were able to find some training facilities loosely associated with the taliban in Iraq
Which added fuel to the talking points on invading
Yeah, and that's why I think you should be asking about Iraq more so than Afghanistan
The reasons for invading Afghanistan are much more evident
[email protected] to point out it's always had loose open borders
Yeah well, you are describing a lot of democratic leadership mistakes. I don't disagree
Hahaha I could care less about the pretenses. It pays for school and you make good money and it's good experience
Of course we all thought it was ridiculous to be over there boots on ground for years. And nobody has all the answers, going to those countries with solutions is what causes the problems in the first place
I did know a lot of people who signed up because of 9/11 though. But I don't operate on zeitgeist, only what's good for me and my immediate family
Are you talking about the taliban and saddam?
Soviets didn't cause an international migrant crisis? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_refugees
It's always interesting how these migrant crisis are just military aged males fleeing the country
As if maybe they stayed in their own country and tried to do something useful for themselves and their families we wouldn't have these issues
Social psychologist have outlined personality traits that make us lean towards socialism
They are useful traits in some circumstances, but what this tells me is that there is no reason to expect a different result if we are being governed by the same type of people that want socialism
Anyone who WANTS socialism is a dictator/authoritarian who just doesn't know it yet
//Sys.validate response.exe compile binary override
Catastrophize, that's the way arguments/discussions work now a days
Ahh ok. I agree, there are people who's lives improve because of socialism.
But unfortunately, millions of people die and suffer as well
Ya. I think as an American, we don't focus too much on what's working where and when. We focus internally
Like for instance, other countries pay attention to our elections, and the average American had no idea what's going on elsewhere
It's hardly much of the world at all. Just 300 million? Compared to 7 billion. That's 4%
It's got a good business model that other countries want to copy. But as the big dog you have to keep your place by coercing other countries by force
It's inevitable, no matter who is on top
If I was born in some other country, I'd have all sorts of issues with America and what they do to other countries
Oh yeah, but they will try to stay on top for as long as possible
Yeah, being on top is what makes you weak. No reason to strive
Nope, they are coming. The cultures are so different. Kids in American elementary schools test somewhere around 25th or worse in math
But they score #1 in their confidence to do math
In China it's the exact opposite. They test much higher in ability to do math, and Lower in confidence
America is in it's dumbing down phase. We've got a very toxic and coddled culture.
Pure democracy is dangerous, right? Why not let the smartest people in a Gaussian distribution make the decisions.
2 standard deviations above the rest only
That's dangerous too, but a better alternative
No, it doesn't. But you don't want the decision makers to be too morally inflated.
I dunno where to find a balance. Probably the way the US does it, we have a good balance of cold hard truth and coddling ourselves like infants
They do a good job balancing the duality though. Seems like the power shifts every election cycle between what's expediently moral, and hard truths that need to be discussed in order to get desired outcomes in the long run
I don't think they are that powerful. Not unless you listen to the recent far left media portrayals. Ben Sasse from Nebraska does a good job summing up why it seems that way
He spoke a bit during the kavanagh ford inquiry
It's all as designed. Nothing has changed
Progress should be slow and arduous. The best way to keep people happy. Is no one should get 100% their way
Executive orders should be constrained though
Corruption occurs in any hierarchy. And hierarchies are inevitable no matter how the cards are dealt
Yeah, but the default human condition isn't to necessarily want to be educated and knowledgeable about how to effectively participate in a democracy. Some people just content being dumb. If anything that's a preferable form of existence. When I see ads telling people to go out and blindly vote, I always smh
If you need to be told and guilted to go out and vote, I don't think you've spent enough time mulling over the information needed to make a sound decision.
They are memed? In what way? In a way that degrades their point of views?
Republicans encompass center, slightly left of center and anything right of center. And if someone in any of those categories doesn't agree, they don't understand themselves deeply enough, and don't realize they likely fall left to far left, and are in a dwindling group that's eating itself.
Trumps approval rating has only improved since the 2016 election. And tribalism has increased. So people are likely going to vote all red or blue. So id predict that people are basically voting trump again, regardless of what candidates have said or done, they will simply check the boxes of their tribal group, more so than we've ever experienced in history. Polls that are predicting a blue wave are repeating the same polling errors that occurred during 2016
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