It's the way hierarchal structures function

It predates or abilities to climb trees

Hierarchies exist in animals in our ancestral chain that predates our abilities to climb trees

Hierarchies are how we function. Put 10 kids in a room and they will form a hierarchy

A hierarchy of who's tallest, who's smartest, who is better at hand stands, whatever you want

The same leaders will rise to the top for the same reasons in a socialist society

Or a communist one

The benevolent leader you describe does not climb that hierarchy. And when he does he gets killed

Even worse

That's probably even worse. Now we are talking about the 2 wolves voting to eat the 1 sheep

I think better education drives people away from socialism

Interesting to think that the computing solution is likely going to be brought about by a capitalist society

That's like predicting the weather more than a few days out

It can't be done.

It's probably even more complicated than the weather. It's like chaos theory. Where the variables change to quickly ad dramatically to predict what the effect of a butterflies flapping its wings will be

Yeah that's a recipe for disaster

Socialism thrives under war. Capitalism thrives better.

If you want socialism to work, there needs to be more of a communal goal other than to peacefully exist.

Capitalism is war, you compete daily to make yourself better than your competitors. Socialism is like a stagnant halt to progress, unless there is a bigger goal in mind, like getting to the moon or bankrupting the US in the Cold War.

But the individuals, I just don't see how they would feel motivated to do anything unless they are heavily propagandized by the state

Socialism IS a communal goal? Or socialism NEEDS a communal goal? That's the difference here

People who generate the most successful ideas and markets in a capitalist society are hardly ever driven by just profit. Their companies end up being sustained by it and thrive off of profit because people want more of it. And it's a useful byproduct that sustains more innovation

How do you see a Silicon Valley emerge in a socialist society?

Or a spacex?

Or an amazon?

Or Walmart

Walgreens didn't even use a business model that accounts for profit. They accounted for number customer visits.

If they used a business model that focused on profit they wouldn't have even come up with the idea to place a store every few blocks

NASA has no goal

Their goal for the last year was to maintain the space station, as per congressional law

Or last several years I mean

Our military is the largest threat deterrent and humanitarian effort on the planet

A business sustains it self on profit, but also on risk, gotta take risk

Well that's why the military is a deterrent

It deters conflicts.

It's a very difficult metric to quantify. You can't list the number of conflicts you deter. You'll never know

Do they have the option to even want to?

Those are marvelous wars. A whole generation of people participated in them

Surgeons, drone technology, counter insurgency

Lots of good comes out of those wars. The people of Iraq were celebrating the US when they rolled in

We just shouldn't have hung around for 10 years after

They had that anyway

Libya and Syria ya, they should've been more like Jordan

We keep the peace and we drop bombs, can't have it just one way

We do both. Not necessarily at the same time

Obama created isis when he refused to stay committed to holding Assad accountable

So do we let Assad murder his own citizens with poisonous gas?

You'd rather allow that to happen?

Afghanistan has always been a shithole. That's why they set up shop there

Taliban sided with al qaeda. They picked a side

And they actually regretted it

You are talking about before Russia invaded

Russia created the taliban.

No they didn't. The taliban was created by a bunch of propagandized kids. Kids who fled to Pakistan when Russia invaded and then came back to Afghanistan and enforced Sharia law

Millions of kids

mujahideen, they were great. That was the most peaceful part of Afghanistan, in the north

Yeah we gave weapons to them, to bankrupt the soviets in the war, and it worked

Then the taliban rose to power when the refugees came back

A sharia law government that supports international terrorism? Yes

Yes that government was overthrown

Well if by your definition that's a bad thing then I guess yes that was what we did

Well, anywhere the US puts boots on ground to start a war becomes a shithole, yes

Extremist flock to those areas to kill Americans

Not only do I support it, I participated in that, both Iraq and Afghanistan

I helped build a school, water wells, and detention facilities in Iraq. And I helped teach the Iraqi army about construction

And I drilled several water wells in Afghanistan

I'm 33

I dunno if there is any simple solution. I think some of the work we did to drill wells or build bridges is a disaster anyway

Those things just go into disrepair as soon as we leave, and they become dependent on the water or bridge after a few years, then it fails, and no one knows how to sustain it and it creates a void and is basically a disaster for anyone dependent on the infrastructure

Yeah, best thing would be to leave them be. But unfortunately they don't let us be

Or they don't let their neighbors be

And you gotta commit to these wars when they start. Can't just half ass it

Because osama was holed up in Africa and Afghanistan

The better question is why Iraq

Extremist flocked to afganistsn though and Africa

That's where the indoctrination and camps were

That's where it was allows to develop and take on the form of international terrorism

As one of the most landlocked countries you can find, that use to be a land bridge between Europe and Asia, afganistan was extremely relevant and than all the sudden once we could fly farther than a few hundred miles without refueling it became irrelevant

Yeah, Alexander the Great had to make his way through Afghanistan to get to Indian and Asia

It produced the most heavily trafficked trade routes between Europe and Asia for centuries

Im just saying, it has very open borders, very diverse and free people

People wanted control of t

Yeah it is

http://theafghanistanexpress.com/afghanistan-a-bridge-between-asia-and-europe/

I'm surprised you've never heard of how important the trading routes were trough Afghanistan

It ruined Alexander the Great trying to gain control of the country

Support it or just embrace it?

Ok, I dunno what you mean. It's a very easy country to gain access to, and had historically been so

That's why it was easy to set up terrorist training shops there

The Iraqi government was actively trying to gain info and probably even capture the few taliban in their country

Unfortunately for them, we were able to find some training facilities loosely associated with the taliban in Iraq

Which added fuel to the talking points on invading

And oil

Yeah, and that's why I think you should be asking about Iraq more so than Afghanistan

The reasons for invading Afghanistan are much more evident

I thought Saudi Arabia created it

Im@trying to point out it's always had loose open borders

Yeah well, you are describing a lot of democratic leadership mistakes. I don't disagree

Hahaha I could care less about the pretenses. It pays for school and you make good money and it's good experience

Of course we all thought it was ridiculous to be over there boots on ground for years. And nobody has all the answers, going to those countries with solutions is what causes the problems in the first place