Why is his pinky as long as his index finger

Orange man good

I think that there are other cases when a child could come into the world unwelcome. Some parents are just hateful pieces of shit and some children are quickly abandoned

Yeah, even if cops didn't get involved, the community likely would, especially in a smaller community

Basic Viper, what's your view on abortion?

same here

Ok well it becomes other people if they commit aggression against someone

The whole point of the argument is whether or not the process of abortion is really an act of aggression and thus the debate is really when it becomes a life

When is it ok to kill?

When is it ok to kill the baby *

When from the point of conception to birth is it ok to kill

It is one hundred percent dependent once it is birthed too

So its ok to kill once its been delivered?

It will starve

So being able to breathe is what makes a human?

@Puerto Rican Nelson you didnt answer my question, also no, you killed an acorn. if you kill a baby you didnt kill a grown man, you killed a fuckin baby

Anything besides the point of conception is arbitrary

@wuzamarine when is it ok to abort?

Like when does it become killing

Sperm is not a human

Thats a gamete, not even a zygote

I think thats taking it too far m8

Its literally not a human being unless it has the independent DNA of both of its parents

Well just as youd say a human cell isnt a human being

Like a nerve cell is a part of a human

But a zygote is an actual independent human

or at least will become one, depending on your view

@wuzamarine So when is it like moral to abort

you gave like a super vague answer I feel

Ok

When is it ok to abort

why

How do we know

Also

How is that not totally arbitrary

Well 4 weeks seems very specific

Why not after or before 4 weeks?

And why is cognative *awareness* the line of morality

No I get that

Why is cognative awareness significant

You said memory?

Why does that matter at all?

Why is it only not ok to abort after it has memory, not that I think we can accurately measure when a zygote gains sentience lol

Morals change by zipcode?

Laws *

I'm talking about morality not legality

Two separate concepts

Also its not a clinical fact that babies just magically gain sentience or awareness at 4 weeks on the dot

Well I'd imagine what makes us human is our dna

People in comas arent cognitively aware

Any law is a moral law idk what you mean

Morally based law *

Ok well that means nothing

It once was?

Well the dead person was once sentient so hes alive

No, doesnt follow

@Puerto Rican Nelson what is your point then?

@wuzamarine semantics, but ok, I should make myself more aware of legal terminology and that sort of thing, I'll grant you. Sorry if i misused a term but I think you get my point that any law is made based off of a moral judgment

@Puerto Rican Nelson I dont think sentience is a good definition of what makes a human a human. Once again, coma example. I think DNA is the best measure of whether someone is a human or not

You can't explain that murder is immoral with a mathematical equation

You could make a utilitarian argument perhaps, but Im not interested in utilitarian ethics, I find that shit disturbing

Utilitarian ethics can justify a whole bunch of crazy shit, lets just stick to the NAP bro

Murder is immoral

When murder is defined as aggressive killing of another individual

key word aggressive

But all murder is immoral

There is no such thing as justified murder, if its justified killing, it isnt accurate to call it murder

Well if what you did was moral, I wouldnt call it murder

killing can be moral, but if it is then it isnt murder

Killing people can be justified

Murder is immoral

Moral killing isnt murder

Moral killing is just killing

Killing is not inherently immoral

No

Murder is aggressive

Non-murder killing is reactionary

To some other point of aggression

Perhaps attempted murder

Oh, I'm not one of these people who will call girls whores and sluts or murderers for getting abortions

I just think its misguided and while I think the action is immoral I dont think they had any mal intent

Murder is immoral

Killing is not

aggressive killing = murder

reactionary killing = not murder

Wuzamarine Im feeling like I really dont understand what youre trying to say

I feel like were talking past each other and I feel like Im just not getting your point

What

no

I dont get your point

Thats my point

Can you please just restate my point so I can figure this out, Im sorry, Im sure this is just me being a dumbass

Ok

by killing do you mean moral killing

how would you define murder and how would you define killing

would you call murder immoral killing and killing moral killing?

Please define the terms because I dont want to make a counter argument until Im sure of what youre trying to say, sorry if Im making this difficult

Ok so you're saying the difference between killing being ok or being not ok is who authorizes it?

ok I think i get what you mean

So you're talking about like the right side of history type stuff?