@Deleted User i would counter that all work involves that

in every system

can you give me an example?

can you explain why it needs to be a capitalist?

@Deleted User but workers are subserviant to other workers and bosses do produce extra value indirectly

a business with good management practices is more efficient that one without

your definition of capitalist seems to be a bit off

I am a capitalist

yet i am very poor

mop?

Everyone owns some means of production

so yes

I have a computer and a brain

so i make money by programming things

@herb i said yes, i do have means of production

@R O M S O C アナーキー @R O M S O C アナーキー I like this definition

pretty close to yours

@herb if you provide the tools and materials

seems like a good deal

I am trying to respond to everyone

I admit my wpm is pretty slow

if i don't answer just @ me

@Deleted User how so?

yes i have the means to produce something

that isn't an abstract idiom you dingus

🤔

@herb to be fair someone who rents out a house usually does manage the property and many associated things

@R O M S O C アナーキー fallacy fallacy

@herb my neighbors love renting their house because the owner takes care of maintenance and repairs

@Deleted Account 81241290a0u523 oof

bat, I recognize that is anecdotal

yup, you can make a profit and the convenience is still worth it for many people

it isn't immorral to provide a convenience to those that will pay for it

is it wrong to shoe shine?

@herb you are providing the convenience of not dealing with all of the maintenance and bills yourself in some cases

not all landlords are the same

@Deleted User If I'm starving to death in america I deserve a medal

just a silly joke calm down

i think people do but it's pretty rare in america

and people are killed by vending machines falling on them

people die from a bunch of stuff

if you want to compare the two on the basis of starvation that's a-ok with me

@herb exchange itfor work or ask the government for compensation

people already do this

if you can't find a way to profit off of it you are a shit capitalist

did you mean debt?

I'm not sure i understand

@Deleted User lemme go look

```if you're starving to death and i offer you a burger for 3000000 dollars do you think this is a mutual and fair transaction?``` no, negotiate better and don't starve dummy

@Deleted User if the deal is bad then go somewhere else

if there is nowhere else then it is fair game for regulation

yeah i mean try your best

if you are on an isolated island with no food and ways of making food

that sucks man

nice

@Deleted User just repost what you want me to respond to

yeah and i said you have a dumb definition of that phrase

@herb I see no issue with google's provided definition

or do you want my own words?

When the society as a collective has the right to regulate individual's property would be my own definition i guess @herb

@Deleted User your surplus value extraction definition is oddly specific in a way i find unjustified

@herb you define socialism

@Deleted User terminology actually means capitalism is awesome. address the content of my argument

justify your definition please

@Deleted User if you don't want to talk about semantics just use normal definitions not marxist ones

@Deleted User it is a series of words. it is not just a marxist idea

@herb ok i can work with that

@Deleted User but it is not exclusively his idea, it has a meaning outside that

fine

extraction of surplus value, when someone leeches value off of your work happens to everyone in every system so it isn't inherently an issue with any system itsself @Deleted User

@R O M S O C アナーキー why such specific definitions?

@R O M S O C アナーキー ok and why is that an issue?

the workers consented

@R O M S O C アナーキー that simply isn't what we are talking about

@herb not true

i didn't like the shitty union at my one job i had in high school so i switched

wow

so hard

yeah, some are great

the one at my job took about 30% of my wages and was not opt-in

```some are great```

you are preaching to the choir

well my specific union didn't do anything for me

the company i worked for payed me and gave me good hours

they didn't steal it

i consented to them taking it

no i didn't

@herb i could always mow lawns

no boss there

i could charge what i want

but it's annoying

and i prefer working at a normal job for a couple reasons

@herb i don't work for my neighbor, i worked for rich people in my town

also he can do the same

he just needs to provide a better service

@R O M S O C アナーキー fallacy fallacy again

calm down mr

@herb so take some from me if you can do better

also like i said, I don't even want to self contract

I am creating value