hi

you expel anyone who doesn't agree 100% with you and try to ruin their lives

duh

activism 101

Violence generally right?

oppression stifles productivity though and leads to revolt

hi

wrong

can i ask sth

if that was true we would still be practicing slavery

Can;t revolt if you're dead

hi

hiiiiiiiiii

can't kill everyone

hi birdfaggot make your point

Can't control everyone either

That's why freedom of choice is the most important factor in a society

aka WHAT IF THE CHILD CONSENTS

so choice ultimately

or revolt insues

within reason

eventually yes

you guys are trying to distill complex structures and processes into a single principle

Depends, segregate, let people choose what nightmare to live under

it really betrays an autistic need for order and clean answers

more choice the better

okay. freedom of choice is one part of the complex structure of a highly functioning society

I'm trying to avoid a one size fits all actually. I'm not happy with just one society

if you want a fundamental structure from which to base an ideology on autistically, it's humans as a social animal

do you really want me to go into every detail of such a complex system?

no I don't

there is no one society?

any theory that doesnt start from there or acknowledge it is inadequate

libertarianism in particular is bad at coping with the fact

If anything is certain to me, It's that their should not be just one society, or one authority on morality and social structure. let people choose facism, let others choose anarchy, yada yada.

Not that it will expel violence, it would just allow for choice

Violence wont ever be expelled

Segregation of such societies of course

fascism is not compatible with a free society just as anarchy is not compatible with an authoriative society

Yes that's why we cannot have one society

it would also lead to constant warfare

It would

we don't!

But one society, or structure would lead to warfare regardless

through oopression

there is no one society

**Alakazam#4383** was cleansed from the server.

I know, but that's the goal for many

they want to fix the world

their way

then let them fix it. If it brings peace and prosperity across the globe then why fight it?

Because it wont

It's flawed to think you can change everyones minds

some people want fascism, some want liberty

some want islam

very few actually want fascism

are you of the belief you can convince them of that?

educating children is the key to changing society for the better

I don;t need to convince anyone of anthing

You'll just indoctrinate?

I just need the ignorant to send their kids to school. If it's free most will do so. Essentially yes. For the betterment of society.

Ah. Well you'll get what you're after, if you control the educating that's

however. Indoctrination isn't quite right. I would want to teach them critical thinking skills

I'm going to teach my boy critical thinking too.

That's the plan

I understand. rationally if you're right, they would believe what's educating, and you would not fear the critical, as you believe you hold the truth.

good on you Valty

I hate the idea of indoctrinating children, regardless what it is.

Let them decide for themselves.

Exactly. and yes some will slip through the cracks and take mein kampf seriously but most won't

In theory

in theory yes

Schools are known for indoctrination too though, so I'm prepared to balance out any bullshit he's taught.

Well, if some universal truth does exist for a better society, the children and the right education would be the path to finding out

the modern education system doesn't teach any real valuable skills other than reading and writing

that's my belief

Some math

I was going to type math but got lazy lol

getting tired but enjoying convo

But it's also possible the only truth from teaching rationale well to the youth, is that much of a "better society" depends on the goals you have for life, and life goals are irrational, by that all will fade to nothing. so we can take that and assume lifes meaning and therefore purpose will differ, and so opinions on a better society will very so greatly between collectivism, individualism, materialism, spiritualism. we'll even with well rational children (not indoctrinated) will cause conflict

and warfare will continue

It's my belief such differences will not easily go away, and so if "better society" is one without warfare. your best bet is indoctrination and total control

at least if it's not spiritual

Those differences in beliefs are fine and you can vote democratically for those values but in a system with many checks and balances it's going to be difficult to have it be dominated by one general ideology and will more likely become a complex system that incorporates many different ideas and over time the one's that work will stay and the one's that don't will be removed.

Define work. less violent? more productive? closer to god?

https://twitter.com/Veeh_Ro/status/978582494739132416

it depends. For example we know that the separation of religion and state is necessary because without that freedom of religion couldn't exist for the minor religions. We know that the right to bear arms is necessary to protect the right to freedom of speech. We know freedom of speech is valuable because it keeps society from suppressing ideas that could potentially better humanity, etc.

**Aodhan#5253** was cleansed from the server.

true, they all share a common relationship, expression, or the will to express. or better the right to conflict

one way or the other, we want the right to rebel, to object

It's so of my belief this is the problem, many want to avoid creating conflict, or believe a better society is a peaceful one or one devoid of conflict/violence

now violence always leads people to lend their mind to the worst of thoughts

but think sport as an example

the Olympics are perhaps humanities best global achievement in my mind, something so silly as sports

but nonetheless it symbolizes finding ways to fight out differences and find peace through violence

Or to assert dominance by saying we produce better people than you and advertize people to come to your better country

Look at this guy he runs fast, if you were in our country this guy would be winning for you

Right, also is a good way to settle an argument. not all arguments but it does help some

hi!

I guess where I like to go with this thinking is that violence is so overlooked on the importance it leads in a healthy society, to test your society against another. war is after all quite productive in many ways. but if society could find ways to compete without its most uneducated form, being that of destroying the other proves I'm right argument. we might actually start to see the path to universal truth is ironically mixed in with what we perceive as the worst argument you can make, that of "shutup or ill shut you up"