Daily reminder saunas are good for your heart

We will need healthy hearts when the civil war reignites

@Cawaii Why are you an atheist.

You picked the literal worst option.

now it's better

can't lie tbh

I am not really religious

Theism has nothing to do with religion though.

perhaps

I was brought up in a Muslim conservative country

I can label myself as an exmuslim

So I assume you've read the Kalam Cosmological Argument

I haven't

@Cawaii

1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. Therefore the universe has a cause.
4. There cannot be an infinite regress of causes.
5. There cannot be a circular causation.
6. Therefore the universe was caused (either directly or indirectly) by an uncaused cause (i.e that had no beginning).
7. The uncaused cause must transcend space and time, and be sentient.
8. But to say a sentient being that transcends space and time brought the universe into existence, is to say that God exists.
9. Therefore God exists.

One of my main points of Agnostic view is the "I'll believe it when I see it" argument, and I love to factor in the ideas that there could be more Gods than thought and believed on the planet Earth, and a true God could exist as the Universe

I'll believe it when I see it is anchoring truth to empiricism

Which is subjective/a preference

if brett likes bud lite he shouldnt be in the supreme court

True, empiricism really does lock out certain theories and arguments necessary for understanding the universe around us, but the basis of being an Agnostic is purely being subjective.

Does God exist or not, I'll believe it when I see it.

>when I see it

how would you be able to "see" omniscience and omnipotence?

hint: you can't

It all comes back down to being subjective.

that's not an argument

you're just saying outright "lol I don't care because it's my opinion"

Without God you have an infinite regress of subjectivity

btw calling something subjective is an objective claim about subjectivity, which imo undermines the ontological potency of subjectivist arguments

nothing is subjective

that is a meme

Empiricism can be embedded within a greater science, which can be embedded in a greater science, within a greater science, etc.

So just out of curiosity, is your theist belief the belief that god is the cosmos?

No

To me, He is the Unmoved Mover

Can you elaborate?

^ the 9 point argument I posted

He is the anchor to the causal chain

He exists outside the natural world, He is the unactualized actualizer.

He initiated all movement. The Unmoved Mover.

God bless America

👌🏼

Well fuck me I guess I just became a Theist

That makes too much sense

<:RedPill:356316562057068545>

lol

why is ezra mod not senior mod

I thought he was senior mod

good

Well the more I think about it the more it makes more sense because that this God would exist outside of the space of reality since It created the space, so it doesn't have to follow the standard laws of Physics that we understand or try to understand now.

Correct.

Since you can't have an infinite explosion and regression of the universe like some would theorize to the beginning of *our* universe now, something had to have started the space

yes

you're getting there

so what god is that

This thing could bend its own physics and think itself into existence and we wouldn't be able to explain it with our own physics, because he created the space that those physics exist and he's outside of that space

@GrandxSlam *trinity

*trinity

https://i.imgur.com/BfkbuV6.png

Correct, you are making the right inferences.

who knows

@Ben well hang on, God didn't think itself into existence

So once that's settled, the question becomes which religion is correct?

God is eternal

always existent

No i think he means God could will himself into the physical realm

everything has a begining though

not God

because God is outside of our universe

Exactly, the physics that we try to use to explain the creation of this God are completely irrelevant because he doesn't exist within that sphere, he's outside of those powers.

Yes but he could break physics and insert himself in our universe if He pleased

how do we know that

yeah, that's the problem with the "well who created god" argument @Ben

He did

He can will that thought of existence

He is not confined to space-time. Space-time is a limitation of the physical world.

There's no reasonable physical theory we can make up and prove because he isn't under that control

God is therefore eternal.

Right, the scope of empiricism is the natural world and the natural world only.

i don't know, it sounds like a perfect excuse, how can you disprove something thats not even in our uhh, realm of existance or whatnot

i just don't understand how we know all this in the first place

How do we know anything?

That is philosophy

The religious server

We don't know in the first place, it's a belief

It's Theism

The same way that you would think of a Christian God

man idk, i am just filled with doubt about everything in the cosmos at this point

Thomas Aquinas dedicated his life to these questions btw

He was looking to prove Christianity as a philosopher first, believer second.

https://www.gog.com/game/shadow_warrior_2

Shadow Warrior 2 currently free!

@GrandxSlam What do you anchor truth to? Empiricism?

Can someone explain to me why Centrism is looked down upon?

@Ben Centrism is apathy

It is pragmatism at its worst

Apathy is death

Is centrism based on a principle?

Yes