press enter key on keyboard

it sends message

the latter point being that all things are generated from things that preceded it

which also means that me making this statement is a result of that

and understanding that concept alone is a result of that

and understanding that concept is a concept of that etc etc beyond infinity

that is the illusion that is created

I fail to see how that is a loophole or goes against the idea of determinism.

It sounds more like an explination of it.

"Determinism" is really just an umbrella term. There are various schools of thought under that umbrella. What you have described would most aptly be considered "predeterminism".

Everything is the result of everything else.

True, I am using the term to describe Hard Determinism.

Yeah, I personally consider myself to be a compatabilist/weak-determinist.

but that still doesnt point the wrong out that there is still the concept of human free will

it cant be tautologically proven, yet it still exists

as a measure is a better way of understanding it

"Of course I believe in free will, I had no choice but to."

We have some evidence that shows we're not fully aware or concious of our actions.

I am not a Hard Determinist myself, I am also a compatibilist.

its entirely true again the point measure

https://www.wired.com/2008/04/mind-decision/

the term 'will' itself is used with 'willpower' which is the strength in which we can keep the influence of primitive instinct upon our actions away from our goals

im still not seeing the relation to politics here however

@Anarchist-Communist >2008

K

And I told you. It can affect things like law.

https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4513&context=jclc

but isnt law a seperate subject

Relatively speaking.

@Anarchist-Communist You are responsible for your own actions, and you are fully aware of it.

@VJ Fuckem.

@Deleted User That feels like you're just running away from the subject.

@Anarchist-Communist Then you tell me what the subject is.

I know people are scared to talk about the idea we don't have free will, but come on.

I'm pretty sure this server is dedicated to leftists of all stripes, although there is a dedicated group of reactionary trolls that like to linger.

i dont think they are scared

its just not a subject many people touch on

he is wrong, you are not fully aware of every action that you make

@Deleted User Free Will vs Hard Determinism. Do we make a choice and how does it affect out politics.

@Anarchist-Communist It is frankly foolish to claim that you have no free will, you can make your own decisions at any point in time.

@VJ Fuckem.

i suggest u take some drugs

and tell me you are at the same stance

under the influence of said drugs

"Stalinism" isn't even a thing. Marxism-Leninism would be the correct terminology.

@styles I sure as shit ain't going to take any drugs.

then take a safe drug

stay up for 24 hours

@Deleted User We have been asking this questions for a long time and Neuroscience does not back up free will at all. https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/mind-guest-blog/what-neuroscience-says-about-free-will/

@styles Hell no.

and then try to make a decision with critical thinking

@Deleted User Neuroscience says we don't make a choice.

Why did Tankie block me?

some basic philosophical arguments say as well, but to a point of measure

Are you a robot

I haven't blocked anyone.

Clearly your choosing to do something right now

I'm a compatibilist. I don't believe in Hard Determinism.

I believe many things are out of our hands, but many things are in our hands as well.

I just find the idea interesting.

@Anarchist-Communist This dosen'r really prove anything, it just proved that humans have natural insticts to certain things.

Idc if you're an AnSyn. I myself was an AnSyn at one point, before studying Marxist theory and Soviet history.

natural instinct influence on human choices = no 'full' free will

Marx is pretty neat.

He really is. I'm glad you have a mind to appreciate his genius.

@styles Let the man argue for himself.

what does that have to do with anything

i have the same stance

that i have gathered myself

on a different time than this conversation

Yeah @Deleted User no one is arguing for anyone.

@Anarchist-Communist Marx was a failed "philosopher" who's beliefs failed miserably every time they were attempted, even stalin had to give up on the majority of marxism because lenin's attempt at it nearly destroyed the whole union.

@styles This isn't your argument however, you jumped it randomly without notice to help your friend @Anarchist-Communist.

why did you block me tankie?

he is not my friend i highly disagree with left wing politics

@VJ No of course I ain't a troll, if I was I woulden't be here for over a year now.

i was arguing with him about it before you came into the situation

@Deleted User Defeatism and Styles is not my friend. Also, I am assured you're a troll.

@Anarchist-Communist And why is that?

@Deleted User That was pure, emotionally-laden tripe. You obviously know very little of Marx, Lenin, Stalin, and the Soviet experiment.

@Deleted User I am not going to fall for your sea-lioning bullshit.

@Deleted User If there is one thing I know, it is that the soviet, chinese, and cuban experiment were all failures.

@Anarchist-Communist Do you see me trying to invade the UK.

How so? Drastically increasing the overall quality of life for most of their citizens is considered a failure to you? Lol

@Deleted User That claim is an unsubstantiated one, China, the soviet union (before it's collapse), cuba, and vietnam all had to become capitalist in order to survive, mostly due to them being at risk of collapsing if they continued their polices of marxism, this eventually resulted in every country where marxism was attempted, abandoning it, and moving back to capitalism, or in the case of north korea, their own independant belief.

Then, after the countries became moderate, and non marxist, they could not be considered marxist in any sane sense, even if otherwise stated, like the late USSR and the present china.

So that is the reason as to why everybody states that marxism and communism fails every time it is tried, because they have always ended up capitulating to capitalism, or abandoning marxism.

Your claim is actually unsubstantiated. None of the places you listed had to "become capitalist in order to survive". In fact, they thrived under socialist policies. This is evidenced by the statistics regarding education, healthcare, technology, labor, etc. What's interesting is that the quality of life actually decreased after the fall of the Soviet Union. This can be confirmed by studies done by the Russian government, as well as outside sources.

@Anarchist-Communist Still think I am trolling?

@Deleted User yes

Also, over half of the population of the former USSR thinks highly of life under socialism, and actually desires a return to that way of life.

The life expectancy of every single country once in the soviet union dropped.

https://www.rferl.org/a/life-expectancy-cis-report/24946030.html

Let me guess.

> 2013

Lol

@Deleted User Of course, why woulden't quality of life decrease over time after a giant and long lasting country collapsed, and you really have the ego to claim that china, vietnam, the near collapse USSR, and cuba, didn't become capitalist?

Cuba is not capitalist, and it's obvious that the USSR implemented market-oriented policies and economic liberalization not long before it's collapse.

That's a primary factor that contributed to its collapse lol.

@Deleted User https://www.google.com/amp/s/apnews.com/amp/a7038453c4234c1eb3bb026a355245d4

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/12/21/reuters-america-cuba-tightens-regulations-on-nascent-private-sector.html