Its not a curve

You haven't proved light yet

Its the angle

Ffs gnite

Gnite babe

Look at your phone

You can see everything

Now tilt your phone away from you till its completely horizontal

That's not light it just changes color

Notice how you cant see much of it

The more shallow the angle the less you can see

Increasing the angle and distance is what makes things disappear from bottom up

The more distant, the more shallow the angle

Wouldn't a shallow angle cause the whole thing to obscure evenly though

No

See the drawing

See the vertical lines i marked in yellow?

No because my phone's still tilted

Now see the observer i marked in red on left

The red observer is closer to bottom than top

So how would this cause an object to disappear from view? The observer is always above the object on a flat plane.

See green line is shorter than purple line

Imagine the lines marked in yellow are buildings

Buildings don't move

The red observer is closer to the bottom than top

Ur not following

Sorry I'll stop

Ok go on

See how the camera is closer to left side of hallway

Yeah

The pillars start to blend together faster on the side the observer is closest to

Ok

You can see more of the pillars on the ones further away

Thats because the angular resolution

You're able to distinguish them anyway

Another example

The pillars are still there, it's just hard to tell one from another

Closer to left

It doesn't make the hallway appear to be curving

You lose the objects you are closer to first

The ocean doesnt curve either

There is a difference between losing an object and not being able to distinguish it from other objects

You are just losing what's closest to you first

The human eye has angular resolution limit of .02 degrees

Once the light hits the retina at .02 degrees resolution the object is no longer reasolvable

You dont lose the entire object all at once

Just the part that reached the resolution limit

As it gets further away, the angle will continue to become more shallow

Ah ok now I see

Until it all disappears

So for example if there was something sticking out from between two of the farther pillars you would see it

It appears like there is a curve

Yes you would see things sticking out

Ok I'm following

Its called gradiant slope or optical slant

Imagine looking at a painting on the wall

Then go up to the wall and look down the wall

You would only see the frame

The angle is gone

So as an expansion of that, say the hallway went as far as the eye could see, until the left pillars melded with the right

And there were mini sails sticking out from between the pillars on the left

At the same distance

Right so if you put a boat going down the hallway...you would lose the portion you are closest to first

It would need to be a very long hallway

Miles and miles

Hmm ok

How does the sail disappear so fast then

Wouldn't it have to travel much further to disappear?

The sail disapears last cuz its further away from you

Ok

Imagine the sail isnt a sail

Its billions and trillions of points of light

Trillions of photons coming to your eye

Those photons are on a steeper angle than the hull compared to your position on the beach

The sail is higher up

Steeper angle

Will be resolvable longer

See how the light blends together on right side of hallway faster than left side

Cuz the camera is closer to right side

The angle is more shallow

But the hallway doesnt curve

We know that

Yet we lose the door frames and picture frames

Oh lord

See the building you are closer to becomes less reasolvable than the building further away

Satan never could understand optics

🤗

I'm gonna have to continue this in a bit I gotta get back to work

In the meantime what's the distance that is required for a ship to fully disappear relative to its height

5 ft at about 15000 feet

Which means you lose objects at 5ft tall at about 3 miles

K cya

Why do we never use binoculars or telescopes to spot the object when it gets away

You can go try it

https://youtu.be/5-Law8Cw9kE

Z what would you say the distance is when we see no further
Like at what distance the object disappears and our eyes reach vanishing point

5 foot tall object will be mostly gone with human eye at around 3 mile

Okay

And it doesn't need to obstructed by anything? Our vision just reaches it limit?

Our vision has a limit yes

Globe model says its earth obstructing

Flat model says its our vision and the way light works

Ok

Cameras work the same as our eyes

They have limits also

The further an object (i.e. boat, building mountain) gets away from the lens, the angular separation will continue to close until the light blurs together and eventually becomes a line or point or edge"

Eventually the points of light all merge and appear as just a line on the horizon

I'm back

One more clarification hun

Yes?

By 0.02 degrees you mean the difference in angle between the top of the object and the surface of the sea, right?

I mean the angle at which the photons are traveling to the eye

So you look at your feet then look to horizon ehatever you dont see is because of that angle of light

Yeah but the eye can't differentiate between photons that hit at an angle that is has less than 0.02 degrees of difference?

That's why things merge together?

No if its at .02 degrees then the eye has lost it

What

Little rods and cones in the back of the eye

Cant see anything at the resolution

I'm not following

This is how angular resolution works physically in the eye.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/459802853524111361/1_EN.png
Cameras work the same way.
The cones of the retina is a zoom in of the eye. If the angular size of the target is not enough to activate more than a single cones/sensor the object is unresolvable.
There are 3 ways to decrease angular separation.
1. Move the two separate targets further or closer together.
2.Increase the distance.
3. Change the angle of view.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/459805458644074511/angseperation.jpg

First here is a demonstration of how angle of view changes the angular separation of 2 targets. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/459806914331541504/unknown.png

For example in this image, as the stop sign's angular size shrinks from distance or angle, the image that prjected onto the retina also shrinks. Eventually it will reach such as small size the eye can not physically detect the light. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/459808085436006410/refraction_cornea.png
A geometric analogy would be closing a pair of scissors. When the scissor tips are closer together than the spacing between the rods and cones of the eye then you get to see the target. The point where the tips cross from too close to normal vision is the angular resolution.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/459817803038326784/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/459818062858682368/65116694_resized550bbc_sg_g4_eye.png
When the angle of view becomes to much it pretty much goes parallel, but you lose sight of the ground before that. It's the same on the globe too but even worse because the angle of view is increasing quicker because of the curving away of the ball surface.

These next images show someone how the angle stays the same but the area that you are actually observing increases. You can see the 5th image how the bottom of a building would disappear.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/459819761644077057/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/459813762132869126/ang1.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/459813783464968206/ang2.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/459813767576813578/ang4.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/459813769548267542/ang5.png

The area inside the blue is the .02 degrees

That is the unresolvable area

Kinda hard to show something you cant see

The cone does reverse inside the eye.
Light is projected on to the retina. We don't see things directly.
It goes through the lens is projected and inverted. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/466469361562026015/kan_ch26_f001.png https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/466469513500688384/retinaimage.png Those images are right for a single point of light. This is part of another misconception. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/468563187713835020/unknown.png This illustrate how we would see a SINGLE point of light. Say a single photon reflecting off the molecule of a wall
Take notice how it emanates in a sphere. Now what we see is the light reflecting from EVERY molecule spherical , and traveling out. The important thing is this. The airy disks I started with.
That is what EACH point is.
Trillions (probably more) of points of light. We don't see each point. We can only differentiate points to the angular resolution limit.
So a trillion points in a 4 ft space at 3 miles looks like a point. Think of the horizon as a bunch of points of light, and not as a building , a boat or mountain.
Then equate an entire object to a point of light. As far as the angle goes. The angular size on an object has the same angular size when projected onto the retina.

Let's work from the center of vision out to the edges , Up (sky) Down (ground) So this image https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/468559885718519848/unknown.png Below the blue you can only see ground
Above sky.
Now how do we bring the max viewing distance into focus?
max viewing distance of the ground
that is... We can only use the bottom half of our vision.
The central part is unresolvable.
The upper part is looking for the sky. The angle between B and C is fixed. We will say the same as the eye .02 degrees. So we are seeing above and below the blue cone but not the cone itself. Like seeing the horizon...the horizon is unresolvable...but the ground leading to it and the sky above it we can see. Question: So what happens when line A to C gets parallel to the ground? Answer: Whatever is in the cone is gone, the cone turns to a line. Exactly and what's in that cone. Anything in a line extending from A to C to infinity will never intersect the ground . But the cone is the area between B and C. So the ground stops at B , anything above point C can only see sky. So the cone in the drawing is the unresolvable part of the camera lens or our vision.

Look , these are the same distances. Obviously the angles are not the same. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/468569265574903818/unknown.png I can make it even more extreme... https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/468569771735253012/unknown.png But guess what....the top of the building will get cut off. When the entire situation is reverse.
Image looking up with your chest up to the world trade center. You wouldn't see the top because the angle would be too shallow. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/468570710344728576/unknown.png Look what happens when you are closer to the vertical than the horizontal, the reverse. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/468570964817608715/unknown.png Here are some questions you can ask yourself. Where is the plane of the eye? What is the relative angle between the surface of target and the plane of the eye? Give that angle , what is the angular separation of the points of light on that target? https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/468574743637786645/unknown.png The relative angle to the plane of the eye and the optical tilt of the target determine the angular separation
If I rotate the green block until it is vertical all the angle will grow. If I rotate it counter clockwise all the angles will shrink. If It was more to scale the angle difference would be more dramatic. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/468578052302176266/IMG_3195_one_world_trade_center_nyc2015_aagdolla-1038x576.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379214321907007488/468578348789006336/502382332.jpg Now imagine the building is 3 miles tall and not 1776ft.

https://youtu.be/vSAlVua7T4g

Ok I get it geez

Watch the video

It is best

So in this case C would be the top of the object and B would be the bottom of it, right?

Basically

Its the center of our vision

Ok

And if the angle BAC is less than 0.02 it's unresolvable, right?

B is the ocean and c is the bottom of the boat

Yes

If it hits .02 degrees then its gone

Ok I understand it now

So the further you get away from the object the more the angle will change

Mmhmm makes sense

Nite =)

Ok

I think I have what I need to disprove it now

You cant disprove it

Its the way it works

<:lul:484994724118134784>

Ok then let's do the math

The given information is two separate facts that you have given thus far

First, the angle between the top of the object and the bottom needs to be less than 0.02 degrees in order for it to be unresolvable

No it is .02 degrees

Second, objects disappear from view at a distance of three miles

I said objects 5 feet high disappear

That's fine

Equal or less than

A 6 foot man at 3 miles you would still see his head

Mmhmm

His legs and body would blend in with the horizon

Gibson_1952_The_perceived_slant_of_visual_surfaces--optical_and_geographical.pdf

Fair enough

Gibson_1952_The_perceived_slant_of_visual_surfaces--optical_and_geographical.pdf

This guy was a globe earther im pretty sure but knew how optics worked

Hold on bud I'm not finished yet

You have to debunk james gibson

So we would have something like this?

Not me

With 15840 feet equal to three miles

And the eye level of the observer at 6 ft

I dunno what you are trying to work out

Observer 5 feet

Fine I'll change it

Observer 5 feet. 15000 feet..5 feet gone

Ok but this is the information that was given, yea?

Thats with 20/20 vision

🤔

The object would be gone from view at three miles away

We good so far?

Thats what it seems to be when tested at the beach

Ok I'll keep going then

At about 3 miles 5 foot objects are gone

K keep goin. Dont forget to read James gibson

Gnite

Ok just a sec I'm doing the math

Tired nite

This is what the angle would be using the height of the observer and the distance of three miles

Which part ?

1 inch off the ground or 5 feet up?

6 feet?

I'm tired gotta goto sleep

The angle that was labeled in the last pic

Ugh whatever ok

What height did you use?

This is the distance the object would disappear using 0.02 as the angle and 6ft as the height of the observer

I used 6 ft for both

Feel free to check the math

It's simple geometry

Cool.thanks ill look at it

Ok tell me what you think when you're done

So what r u saying?

According to the information provided, objects of the size specified would vanish fully at 299.96 feet instead of 3 miles

You must of done something wrong

You're welcome to find where I messed up

Think about what you are saying

I did

5 foot object doesnt disappear at 300 feet

It does at 3 miles

Now you're catching on

It would vanish to the naked eye

At 300 feet the bottom few inches prolly start disappearing

Without a telescope

5 feet isn't too big

I would imagine it'd be hard to see from that far away

The bottom starts disappearing, sure. But that's assuming you can see it without using a telescope

Thats what we are talking about just human vision limits

Ok hun

The angle of light going into the retina

In the back of the eye

Yep

K

Would you care to explain how the sail of a sailboat does not become unresolvable gradually when aided by a telescope then

It does

Or maybe why it doesn't appear to sink when viewed by the naked eye

It does

It doesn't

Sure it does

It becomes unresolved to the naked eye before it becomes unresolved with a telescope

It appears to sink and even starts blending with the sky

Telescope brings it back into view

If your theory was correct you would be able to see it vanish behind the horizon once with the naked eye then again while using a telescope

You do

You don't

Go watch a boat then use binoculars

I will

Ok

Let me know what you get

But if I don't see it sink twice you're gonna have to explain that to me