its how we have done it before

At 20%, youd need a revolution

War is a great way to reduce the population

THe situation would be bad at that point

Your solution to unemployment it's the draft?

no

Well a war or a purge

my solution to unemployment is WAR

Who are you starting a war with?

The unemployed?

the unemployed people

Well, theres this called war economics.

And the concept that conflict will drive produce and consumption

Of course thats not desirable

You can kill your own citizen because they don't have a job.

Look at western society today

You have people at the point of willing to wage war with their neighbour over the policy of "What should we do with poor people sneaking into our country"

you make an excuse, and you just go "whoops, well that happened, people ded"

So you want to deliberately start a civil war as a means to save us from the unemployed?

It IS a solution

Whether its a good one is another subject entirely

I don't like it anymore than you do,

But If given the choice between
UBI and collapsing society

and having a few hordes of people kill each other so the rest of us live, then the answer is simple

people need little reason to wanna kill each other anyway, look at the world

Something small,

You do like it more than I do, because i would never choose that option.

Its a natural thing,

We kill each other over what imaginary person we should worship

we kill CHILDREN over that

Cancer is a natural thing too, doesn't mean it's good.

Cancer doesn't have free will

humans do

Neither do we.

The thing is, what we decide to kill each other over come from free will as well.

Well, as in, you have the choice

don't start that whole "do we have free will?" argument

the strands of time have no impact on the fact of

"Do i wanna kill this person in front of me yes/no"

Then again, you can choose not to, and then get killed anyway

But thats not the point

Back to the issue at hand

UBI

No but our chemical make up does, and that make up is not in our control.

I don't buy the stands of time thing eiher.

You or what you think of as you is not the think of your thoughts.

So about hte issue with UBI

doesn't matter,

People kill each other willingly,

The issue with UBI, is the same issue of why communism/socialism doesn't work,

People don't work for free, and when it becomes perfectly livable to not work at all, the huge majority will opt for that

and whatever remains will not be able to sustain it

The intent with UBI is that when you deal with someones most pressing issue, it would allow them more leway to move on to other issues.

now im off to dinner 😦 i'll be able to discuss this more when i'm back

No people don't work for free, they work for money, but a welfare state isn't an attack on capitalism.

Socialism is not welfare.

We are talking non labor tasks, like creativity or innovation

At least not in the way you're saying it.

Thats statism

No I dont think welfare is socialism, I think its statism

Okay, call it what you want.

Look, So the UBI is trying to solve this issue for this payback

GIve people mroe time to persue other topics. Stuff like create art, invent stuff, or get an education

And hopefully earn enough to go past the UBI

UBI is try to solve the problem of people who can't work shouldn't be forced into hell because of their lack of skills.

And Isnt that what welfare is right now?

Not really.

UBI is that, but for everyone regardless of income

Okay, who gets welfare?

UBI should cover that right? Thats the point right?

No

Who gets welfare?

Okay, what Im given to understand.

UBI means everyone gets a fixed wage.

No.

Regardless of status.

Not correct.

Enlighten me please

Who gets welfare?

This isn't a trick question.

I mean like I said, I thought UBI was the welfare

Right but who gets welfare.

Because UBI is covering what welfare as it is traditionally known .

Everyone gets UBI

What is welfare meant to do.

To do what UBI does as well?

No.

What is the purpose of welfare.

To allow people more leway to allow them to pursue other matters.

YOu have time to look for a job when you dont have to worry about going hungry

Until they're able to find a job, right?

But thats what UBI is supposed to be for? Allow people more leway to pursue less profitable avenues.

Would you agree that welfare is a means to sustain people while they look for work?

Well, immediately profitable ways.

I already said that yeah it is. But UBI is the same, and is applied uniformly

Okay, but if you're already working, you can't get welfare right.

Or you can't get it if you make over some amount of money.

There are people with jobs but still require food stamps

Well, just get to the point

Right but if they're working their benefits are reduced.

I am.

What is UBI, why does it replace welfare, and how does it help now

Or in the future.

The issue is that in the future, there will be a subset of the pop that is unable to get any jobs

Because the standard of intelligence required will be really high

Thanks to tech like better manufacturing, and automation

Right.

But everyone can get UBI.

And the argument is that UBI is to placate the pop that found themselves out of job