I wish they gave more info on why it didnt work

Like both articles just say "yeah it wasnt working"

well in canada they have barely any info

it just got cancelled cuz teh PCs dont like UBI

they actually said they were keen to see teh results fo the 3 year study before

but then canned it

not just for poverty

When burger flippers / busdrivers / shop clerks are no longer needed,
and these people are generally not educated/smart enough to get higher level jobs

So they'll become unemployable

which is pretty gay

@KidKrakower Same. My thoughts too back when the Finnish result was reported on. And I dont speak Finnish so couldnt dig through their media for answers.

even if it wasnt gonna work id like to see exactly WHY and the results of those studies

Completely unrelated but I think this server needs a place to post music

shitposting

😂

XD yeah or a music channel

@JULZIFICATOR yeah exactly

A place _specifically_ for music

music snobs find other peoples music shit 😛 hence it fits?

shitposting

Whether it worked or not (I dont think it would at this point) I would like some research done on it

Especially if it becomes more popular of a concept in the future

There's actually a leftist argument against UBI.

https://youtu.be/J10jKdPRN9A

I don't think ubi would work because giving everyone a bunch of money would just lower the money's value, and replacing the lowest level jobs with robots would just push the next lowest level into the new lowest level. You'd have to give people an infinite amount of money and automize all the jobs for it to work

Then money would be worthless and you'd basically turn into the people in Walle

That's assuming there's enough food for everyone

Its an impossibility in theory

- You can't just generate money as a state, that would cause inflation, making the money itself worthless

- You have to get it out of taxes from those who still work, meaning their work becomes less valuable cuz they're literally paying people to stay home and live

- The very rich (who would be taxed the most) would most likely just leave and form a smaller state and only pay for security, since robots fix basic needs now

- If you get enough money from the state to "live", then people will not be motivated to work, cuz they can just live without it,
Thus causing a shortage of high-skilled labor which isn't replaced yet

I think we're saying two sides of the same coin

Tl;dr the leftist argument: "It's a market- based solution and markets are bad as they fluctuate. Also, the wealthy in society are all advocating for UBI so that's suspicious".

well they are right

UBI would make people dependent

"tax would have to increase by nearly 30% to fund a basic income. It also argued that basic income would increase income inequality and raise Finland's poverty rate from 11.4% to 14.1%." from the article about finnland

so its gonna be used to either bribe people to not riot, or keep people enslaved by giving them the minimum

I agree with all of those points, @Dr.Wol , I just wish there was hard data to back it up; so you wouldn't have to say "in theory"

@Sarah Jessica Farter XD lol the wealthy advocating part

It's impossible to "fix" the market because fixing the market assumes your solution works for any market condition (a recession vs boom times)

the hard data is there, its why they quit the testing, but people knowing it is "inconvenient" for the argument that we need UBI

UBI is an excellent selling point for raising taxes that will just "vanish" again

Altho with the doom and gloom scenario you propose, maybe it would be best if we didnt experiment ☠

XD yeah fix as in fix teh value of goods or fix the value of money

neither are good

To remove all other market conditions would turn it into a command control economy

And that too,

With UBI, companies can just up the price of products, since you can afford it now

i mean the data is not readily advailible

unless u have some sources

@JULZIFICATOR Is he wrong? I honestly don't know. He gave some examples in his video of wealthy pro-UBI advocates but I can't remember who they were. Charles Murray, the US conservative was one.

Anyone here have a background in economics? I'm a software eng so all my knowledge is self-taught

its not available cuz the data is against UBI, hence they wont share the data, if it works, they'd gladly share it to go "SEE, we need it and it works!"

@KidKrakower edcucate yourself bigot

i got that reference

LOL well elon musk and the ZUCK both advocate for it

but the zucks known as a bona fied leftist

Clearly we only need to know feminist basket weaving to understand a complex global economics

Zucc is not leftist. Leftist means anti-capitalist.

Or a BA from BU like ocasio cortez

Well, it's a nebulous term, I suppose.

Zucc is pretending to be left for the positive reputation it gives him

it is known

Leftist isn't anti-market. The far authoritarian left is anti-market

yeha i should say is an advocate for the leftist voice in the US

It is amazing he has remained so universally disliked in spite of that

cant cuck the zukk

Sure. Centre left, left liberal, or whatever.

thats cuz he's pissing on the rational people
And the irrational ones hate him cuz he's not like them (Poor and oppressed)

I don't mean to sound picky but I think the majority of people who are left of center wouldn't consider themselves anti-market

Just saying

yeah left of centre indeed

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

i wouldnt call a left of centre person a leftist

That's what I mean. Centre left is social democracy. "Welfare capitalism".

leftists basically means far left.

I reject that centrism is social democracy

i mean

Just means higher tax rate and public spending but still within a capitalist economic system.

while some centre left ppl may be for social democracies

id say its less than half

Centrism is a wide umbrella. I'd say its everything from social democracy to moderate conservatism. Again, these labels are all pretty subjective though.

social democracy is just monetary socialism

Instead of seizing the means of production and redistributing it
you seize the wealth and redistribute it

just because anyone in teh centre is defined by being a mixed bag

Kill all white men but it's for equality

XD "mainstream news is the new jerry springer" fucking on point tim

what commies dont understand

State mandated interracial marriage to end racism

as a fairly attractive dude

State mandated catgirls to end incel weeaboos

id get madd pussy if we lived under communism

Press x to doubt

X

not to mention id actually have more money

haha

listen to this one

cuz im a broke ass musician

and you think communism would get you more than broke? 😛

1 dollar is more than 0 dollar

even if its reall fuckign close

under communism you'd not only have 0 dollar

you'd also lose your musician status

not to mention commies hate musicians

Thats why the best thing you can do to stop crazies from occupying the left

is get them to state their position

openly and in writing if possible

Take the IWW for example

why not in interpetive dance?

lol