Right but I don't like when people hear a half-assed version of a story and immediately hop on twitter with their garbage hot takes...which I am now realizing describes half of twitter

It's just funny to see someone like that now a likely member of congress

You don't have to be well-versed on policies. Just issues and emotions now. Populism rules the day. It also rues the day.

It's like, on a free un-moderated server everyone wants to talk so the dominant position tends to overwhelm opposition.

It would be more effective if it were more like a formal debate with timed positions to avoid keeping people from getting overwhelmed.

Reddit is the worst at this, because then you get ideologically minded down/up voters.

Remember, these people live with a very fragile view or the world. And any time it is so little as cracked scares them.

Of*

^ The other big issue.

So it's extra hard. One good debate sends them running

Or when there's a major event and everyone floods to attack the people who would be harmed by the development

"asking for comment"

Imagine the debate between her and her opponent this Fall.

I'm sure we all know someone in some friend circle who does this.

It's very hard get them out of their shell. Particularly when they can't run behind their comrads to "recharge" so to speak

Like, I can't say how many messages I got about the 12 Russia indictments. I saw more "ARE YOU READY TO ADMIT YOUR WRONG NOW" posts everywhere (including on fairly 'closed' social media) than I ever did discussing anything about the idictments themselves.

I really like Margaret Hoove.r

Obviously, that's going to make people feel attacked.

It's also kind of shocking that R's are trying to downplay the endictments as if they arent a big deal

Like you can think Trump wasnt involved and also think its a big deal that were indicting people

It's a tribalism issue. Everyone is so obsessed with getting extra voters to themselves they've forgotten literally all other concerns.

Eh, let's not go too deep into it. I was trying to use it as an example of taking an event and go after people. It was the most recent thing so that's why I took it.

It's either be Anti-Russia or Pro-russia. And I'm not even Russian.

It's better not to get too deep on a tangent on this kind of thing.

Like the first moment I was in the ancap server, I mentioned my brother in law was a captian in the army and one guy came running out of the box like "YOUR BROTHER IN LAW IS GETTING PAID WITH STOLEN MONEY" making sound like my brother in law was an inheritantly bad dude and it's just woah buddy, that's not how you start things off.

This also happen to be the guy who would cite books about everything

recreational nukes when

lol. Which server was this? It sounds like someone being a shitlord.

Made me feel like I was debating about God and his response was "because the Bible"

I'd gladly switch to ancap if I got recreational nukes 😃

AnCap and Communist ideologies are like basic physics problems...they only work in a vacuum with a frictionless surface

Eh. Citations make sense. And I can see the argument for just saying "read this book"

Yeah, but it's lazy

It's more an issue if they won't defend the ideas presented in the book or attempt to summarize them.

Sometimes you just have to egg it out of them

And you don't truly get the argument until you can recite it by heart.

Or modify it, at the very least.

But enough of them there had read it and were able to summarize it so we could move on.

Actually, one thing I'd like to say.

We are woefully missing long term documentation.

Alot of these servers have very significant ideas come out of them. But I doubt most people are interested in documenting any of it.

The final straw for me was this one new guy, who came in, would use a common word everyone knows as x definition, would debate you a little while, then go "but I'm using y definition" that is basically not a definition for that word like ever.

But when you think about it, these are the thoughts by which future generations will have to consider.

lol i like looking at christian and socialist/communist arguments and finding parts that are reasonable and work

even though im on the other side of both of those views lol

Or you'd start the debate using x definition, he'd argue from y definition, then when you corrected him he would go "oh, so now you are changing the definition because you are losing?!"

Fucking strawman should have been his title.

Yeah, one issue with ideological arguments though is that we tend to define them by the extremes.

And communities will lay claim to "ideas that work" even if they themselves didn't really come up with the idea in the first place or simply renamed something someone else said.

like i dated a pretty religious chick a couple years back and the whole agnostic shit never bothered them hahaha mainly because i could articulate good reasons for a higher power from theri perspective

The fuzzy middle ground is hard to stand on.

also i was never bothered by prayers before supper n shiet n id respect them

Since I hadn't had any good debates for a while since then, and even managed to get one person to shift there position and say I was right, I was just "screw Mr strawman" and left.

@Grenade123

Yeah, definitions matter. And some people just want to rework them. There's not too much you can really do IMO. I've redefined words myself (heck, I've had days long discussions on what definitions make sense), sometimes you just have to if you want to get a point across.

LIke, I can think of atleast 3 definitions of "conservative" that all make sense and can be hard to distinguish in context (and all mean radically different things)

LOL queue the first podcast between sam harris and jordan peterson where they spend an hour defining truth lol

as much as good points were made they were speaking past each other

Oh man. Truth. That's like, a whole branch of philosophy.

I argued that the server needed a dictionary, so we could start bedates by going like "government: using def 1a)" for opening statements

Probably one of my favorites too.

YAYA bud hahah love that shit

Lol. That would work.

But then you'd probably have to flood the dictionary with new entries after just 15 minutes of real conversation.

Pretty much what it was getting to

Just make a point of clarifying?

But better than spending an hour defining truth for the 5th time

Pull a Peterson. "But what do you mean when you say X?"

You sorta have to do that in real discussions.

I've had arguments with friends that lasted hours that came down to which part of a distribution we were thinking about.

Iron out the difference and we would be in complete agreement.

The challenge is knowing when you need to stop and clarify definitions.

you really do

which is why i generally end up asking like 20 questions of different far fetched scenarios to figure out peoples positions

That people don't do this more often in formal debate is one of those signs that people aren't really discussing as much as fighting.

Oh I do that anyway. Working with the abstract is fun

which can be hard when they treat those questions as attempted gotcha moments and go "but thats just too far fetched and breaks x y and z"

Abstract is the only real good way to go for some things.

Since the pragmatics can easily break on tribal boundaries.

its just like "ugh... just answer the question, its not supposed to be a gotcha damnit"

lol that feel when ppl are like "OH U JUS MAKIN SHIT UP TO MAKE U SOUND RIGHT" LIKE NO JUST PROPERLY ARTICULATE YOUR POSITIONS AND WE WOULDNT BE IN THIS MESS JANNET

I think examination of the situation is valid though

Sometimes the parameters of a question make assumptions they shouldnt

poor Janet, always causing problems

Am i the only one that thinks McCain is senile?

But that's the reality of most debate in this world. No one's actually looking to discuss. They're looking to win.

McCain is an old man

and has old man problems

Apparenty, Uganda has a social media tax.
https://torrentfreak.com/uganda-to-block-vpns-after-people-begin-avoiding-new-social-media-tax-180702/

lol i mean he had a brain tumor not long ago lol not to mention haveing been a POW

i blame ugandan knuckles

Who cares, he's almost certainly going to retire soon and isn't that much of a factor in anything anymore.

Because people act like McCain is a true hero

I mean, in some ways he is.

But he went senile since the 2012 election

i love McCain cakes XD

@pratel i mean they are saying how he is a hero now since he is standing against trump

Lol. You can avoid the tax with a VPN

Which i feel like is a cough out

Not a very effective tax by the sound of it.

Let's just hope that they don't give other governments any ideas.

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Aside, I felt like the Ugandian Knuckles was a real missed opportunity. Had it lasted a bit longer it could have kickstarted the Ugandian film industry into being something more.