This is philosophy 101
That's why we make a clear distinction between philosophy and math for example

That's why so many philosophers are bullshitters, because they can just claim literally anything and call themselves smart

Gravity is real, it's been proven. You don't require 100% certainty that it works to consider it proven. 100% certainty **does not exist for anything**

The only thing we need to know is that gravity, so far, has always worked pretty much exactly as we would predict.

Only a philosophizing bullshitter would deny that and come up with some metaphysical nonsense to contest it.

Maybe one day gravity will fail to work as we predict, and it'll be spectacular and exciting. Until that day **it counts as proven.**

I agree with all that, the difference is just semantics. Difference between a Mathematical proof and theoretical models in physics is that once proven, Mathematical results won't ever fail.

Every single model we create to describe reality can fail, that's the whole point of science

Nothing is ever 100%, so saying "proof is not 100%" is like saying the sun rises every day

Mathematical results can, hypothetically, fail. Because anything and everything can fail.

I just wouldn't bet on it, that's all.

Again, we're using two different definitions of proof. How can Mathematical results fail though?

Because literally every model we created to describe the world has been created by us. By fallible beings.

There is no way that we can 100% sure about anything.

Pure Mathematics as an independent subject isn't used to describe the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_mathematics

All mathematical systems do have minor blindspots to them

We can only understand mathematics through our subjective mind. As long as that is the case, we can misunderstand all or any of mathematics.

That is philosophy 101. Nothing is truly knowable.

Well I mean shit, if you have a probability of not 0 it will happen eventually. So yeah it’s technically possible that I wake up on mars tomorrow through quantum tunneling. Anything is possible, though it probably won’t

Yes, correct

It makes sense to trust mathematics, but it'd be wrong to assume that any of our models will never fail, no matter how simplistic they are.

Key word: "never"

@Hexidecimark Can you elaborate on what do you mean by minor blindspots?

I’m just saying it’s retarded to get pedantic about going on about “oh you shouldn’t say it will **never** happen!” Anyway I gtg

Don't recall the exacting details from Formal Automata but IIRC the gist is that there are exceedingly fringe scenarios that any given number system must fail at representing

It's not pedantic, because it's the basis of science. When I say "it must be *possible* to prove a theory for it to be a scientifc theory", then that's at the core of all science.

@Hexidecimark Are you talking about Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem?

Science is, ultimately, a matter of probabilities. The best findings are the ones that have the highest probability of being correct.

YES thank you

Specifically that any sufficiently complex system cannot prove its own consistency

Just like the sun may not rise tomorrow, yes

In that aspect, yes, most Mathematical systems are faith based in a sense, in that we may find a contradiction in that system some day, rendering the entire system false

And the sun may also have never risen before, maybe that was all a worldwide illusion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems

But that doesn't matter for science. Realizing that nothing can ultimately be known doesn't change the fact that without the *possibility* of proof, science doesn't work.

Alright that nonsense is over with. Fun fact, the light time it takes for light to go from the sun to earth is 8 minutes and 31 seconds. So in 8 min and 31 sec during the day the light would just go out

Interestingly, more famous Mathematicians than Scientists have been Theists, including the one who proved the above theorem (Kurt Gödel)

That'd explain why that math student I used to know suddenly converted to Christianity. Although maybe it was the fact that his Christian gf was hot.

Ignore phattyreus. He's the resident pseudo-intellectual that cant cite sources but makes retarded claims to fear monger @ETBrooD

But muh 0.000000000000042% German ancestry!