I shouldn't invalidate escape from immediate pain in there here and now but I'm still dubious if that would happen if they expected it to end and come good

welll... the tooth ache MIGHT have been the last straw

but it was very unlike it was the ONLY straw

I still kind of think my initial conception is correct

jumping off a high bridge, pretty well committed action

?

Still requires having nothing going for them

abjection of hope is dfferent from defiance and different from snapping after being under too much stress for too long

I still think its total abjection of hope because people kill themselves with kids and a wife because they are in hyper debt and they know how its going to go down in a few months

i STRONGLY disagree

I can believe snapping

https://youtu.be/fSczSp1bz9U

men DEFINATELY kill themselves with kids and a wife because they are in hyper debt

Tim Pool did a recent video on the suicide variable as a side to this mess...I think most of us here were around for the "great recession" ya?

quite often in fact

I'm not sold on defiance, seems to be where violent expression towards others might happen

I said they totally do

because they have been robbed at what they define themselves by or what others look to them to provide

defiance can encompass that sure, but defiance is a lot of things, including defiance against your own inclination to react to a situation in that "natural" manner.

I'd like to clarify that I said they definitely do because of hyper debt even when all is right **For now**

oh, i'm the kinda bastard that if backed into a corner, i'd off myself if i could rrame a bitch that fucked me over for it

definance

there is no such thing as a 'no-win scenerio'

It would be fair to say that it is a reason for killing one self but also a reason to take drastic possibly violent action

I guess it comes down to whether the person is in their right mind when they do it or not

a lot of people will struggle with that fight or flight conflict...fight to survive or off yourself, go try to steal from others to live- or keep to integrity and just end it quickly...Ironically god will punish you with eternity in hell for suicide..

personally, i think psychologists have done more to facilitate the suicide of more men than they have saved

how desperate he makes his children

Implosion (abjection of hope) explosion (suicide possibly with action, death by cop goes here or murder suicide, school shootings ext) defiance examples other than escaping from immediate pain?

well, principles don't matter if no one is left to carry them forward

yeah well god still knows you're stealing

god steals.

ya- he's an ass like that, do as I say, not as I do

doesn't make it RIGHT

only means it may have been NESSECARY

if you can live with it, you do it willing to accept whatever penalty is deemed appropriate

yeah, but in a long excruciating environment- potential for a lot of stealing, even murder is there.

as I said. in my view, that moral dillemia is the nature specialization society came to rely on women for

And I don't know about you guys- but I'd rather off myself than kill someone over a loaf of bread

men did what needed to be done and then submitted themselves for judgement, knowing their hands weren't clean enough to judge for reasons that needed to be done

I'd rather find another loaf of bread