Message from @Sentient23
Discord ID: 686668155493679104
very nicely said
actually funny thing is he more or less agreed with parliamentarian democracy because then "youre voting people who know well"
which is the stupidest shit ive ever heard
he still said direct democracy was an illusion since you arent always part of the majority which means that youre not really deciding anything as an individual
which is true but it really doesnt mean anything
in a direct democracy obviously the individual doesnt reign but the majority
> he still said direct democracy was an illusion since you arent always part of the majority which means that youre not really deciding anything as an individual
But that doesn't even make any sense, because democracy is not about YOU deciding about something, it's about THEM, with them being the majority.
Yes
well maybe i sort of understood the text wrong but well thats what i got from it
maybe you wanna read into some of his stuff or maybe not well its not really worth it
The idea is about your views being represented, and your views having an influence on the economy/country
So i think his objection stands
I trust you tbh, and from what you've told me the guy sounds like a very dumb one, who should be the example of an inefficient voter in democracy. Maybe that's why he opposed democracy in the first place, lmao. I might read a few things about him when I have time though
This is what democracy appeals to. Individualism. YOu having an influence. "if you dont like it just vote for someone else" revolves around the idea of you as an individual having the capacity to change anything
@Ater Votum are you for democracy now lol?
What are you now?
my friends girlfriend couldnt stop complaiming about him like as if she had her period
but now i read one of his texts and i have to say she was justified
but it was still a bit annoying
@Sentient23 Direct democracy yes
Oh yikes
That is a utopian statement:
> The idea is about your views being represented, and your views having an influence on the economy/country
> So i think his objection stands
@Sentient23
That can't be true, because it literally can't work as a system. Yes, if Democracy works correctly, then other views are also taken into consideration and have influence on other individuals, but Democracy's promise, is that the will of the majority of the people turned into reality.
Also Democracy doesn't appeal to Individualism, not necessarily.
Yes it can't work, that's my point
It does appeal to individualism? The whole idea of "If you dont like him just vote for someone else bro"
That's individualism. Have you had any conversations with proponents of democracy from a anti democratic perspective? This is always the objection once you ask them why political opponents should be allowed to maintain their exististence if they promote instability
@Ater Votum read hoppes book on democracy
well for me democracy is more about sticking together and finding the best solution for the majority as a country
but if its not like that in practice
which it often isnt then obviously thats a valid criticism
i dont get leftist ideology trying to make everyone as individual as possible
and then also people from diffrent cultures
im not a fascist that wants everyone to be the same
but why force diversity thats just stupid
diversitiy is actual cancer in a political sense
imagine having a country for people thinking like this (germans in germany) and a country for people thinking like that (turks in turkey)
isnt that so much better?
there would be a much larger happier majority
Democracy as it currently is (Representative Democracy), can't work indeed, but Direct Democracy (and preferably with a few alterations) can work, and it can work very well, actually. I've had countless debates with anti-democratic people, and it's actually true what you say - claiming that democracy appeals to individualism is a standard argument against Democracy; but I just surprise these people when I prove them wrong.
In order for one to claim that Democracy appeals to Individualism, one must think that the definition of Democracy is the one that you posted: "The idea is about your views being represented, and your views having an influence on the economy/country." And yet again, that's simply not the definition of Democracy. Democracy promises that the will of the majority becomes reality. Not that the individual's views have an influence on the country's politics. That simply can't work. The idea of democracy is the __collective__ effort of all the majority to agree on, say, a law that needs to be passed. Therefore, collectivism, not only between the people who make up the majority, but between all the voters of the country, is required for Democracy to work properly.
We need direct democracy
Is the US in a way, a direct democracy?
Not at all. It's a Representative Democracy - a "democracy" in which people vote for their rulers.
In Direct Democracy the rulers are the people.