wait but who

wow he left

@Sentient23
Sorry about the wait.
So since you're Catholic I'll skip the personhood discussion and jump right into assuming the zygote and fetus are a full person.
Given that we accept consent matters in the discussion (I'd hope so because I don't want you condoning rape) and we understand that sex and pregnancy are two seperate things you can consent to, and consent is something you can take away at anytime, the woman would have the right to revoke her consent to the pregnancy and could achieve an abortion from there.

How do you separate personhood from consent? Consent to life is a right that aborted children are not afforded

Assuming we're talking about consensual sex, consent was already given once sperm merged with the egg, creating life. She could've only retracted her consent by telling the dude not to cum inside her. But even then, I don't put value on consent more than i put value on the inherent value on human life

Okay, but what if she never consented to being pregnant?

^

I'm sure that the vast majority of women today do want to have children, despite of how many children they want. What if they're not ready, or don't want to have children at all? Why value proliferation of mankind over the freedom of a human herself? You can find another woman who wants to have children - you don't need to force her to have them.

I just said, I put more value on the inherent value of human life than on consent

That's not good.

Even if they get raped

Or if the guy doesn't pull out on time

Can you have sex without getting pregnant?

Rape is an extremely serious crime, it should have very serious consequences, and the woman should have the right to choose whether to keep the baby or not.

yeah but that would be immoral since natural law dictates that sex is for procreating rather than pleasure

Well again, this is where we depart

I put value on the intrisict value of human life, more than I put on the opinion of the woman

Okay so you don't agree the two are seperate?

which two

sex and pregnancy

That's not what nature "dictates."

No

And notice how i said "natural law" rather than "nature"

Many animals and humans have been having sex for pleasure, other than impregnation.

Koninos you evidently don't know what natural law is

in This context, especially in catholic theology

Okay sure, if that makes you sleep.

lol

What is natural law?

sounds bs

The natural law of Catholics?

Yeah no thanks.

You don't. Natural law is the knowledge of gods will acquired by analysis of the nature of certain things. Once you've deduced this, you oughta respect it and conduct your behavior within the domain of gods will whenever you indulge in such action, without excluding some things for the sake of others (i.e pregnancy for pleasure)

@moira Natural law is a whole of steady, unchangeable moral principles which can also be referred to as a "conduct."

Yeah that's an incorrect definition

As a conduct that if humans break, they're immoral.

That is true

Who made this

Who made what?

Lol if natural law is the knowledge of Gods, then it doesn't exist.

haha, fanny