harm is 'damage'

hurt is pain

so society does damage to the life of the women by refusing them the right to an abortion. socioeconomic damage and psychological damage if they are unprepared to have children, so that means society is doing something wrong this is the pro-choice argument

"do fetus feel pain?" Also, this is irrelevant.

their argument is no less valid then your 'harm' argument

so now it's about playing to people's emotions

"so society does damage to the life of the women by refusing them the right to an abortion. socioeconomic damage and psychological damage if they are unprepared to have children, so that means society is doing something wrong this is the pro-choice argument" No, the problem here is having unprotected sex without being prepared for the consequences. Being irresponsible is no justification for murder.

so you're saying that the women should be a slave to their children because of a mistake they made 🤔

"so now it's about playing to people's emotions" How is this relevant?

you're calling it murder

but murder is subjectively defined

"so you're saying that the women should be a slave to their children because of a mistake they made 🤔
How is that slavery?

because they don't have a 'choice' in whether they want children or not anymore

it's now something involuntary

similar to a slave not having a choice to not serve their master.

"you're calling it murder
but murder is subjectively defined" No, murder is entirely objective.

"because they don't have a 'choice' in whether they want children or not anymore
it's now something involuntary
similar to a slave not having a choice to not serve their master."
no???

How do you get that?

my point being is that you don't
A) Have an objective definition for murder, you're highlighting that' 'killing without reason' is just what society believes is not a valid reason

B) your definition of harm is 'subjective' and you're never focusing on how it affects the woman

valid reason is a subjective phrasing

there's nothing that means what i believe to be a valid reason to kill

is what you believe is a valid reason to kill

for example i might be a pacifist and disagree with all WARs

but you might support wars to defend one's nation

so i believe war is murder

and you believe war isn't necessarily murder

those are subjective opinions

and there's no way to get 'objective' truth there.

society only takes (in a democracy) the average view of everyone put together

and determines that as the *right* answer

but there's nothing objective about the mean opinion of a nation

1. SEX IS VOLUNTARY!!! Unless it's rape
2. Babies, foetuses, whatever you want to call unborn children ARE HUMAN.
3. Killing a human without reason = murder.
4. Self defence is a reason to kill, if that amount of force is necessary.
5. Under the points made in 2 and 4 abortion is not murder when the mother's life is at risk.
6. War is not always a reason to kill. You are fighting for something and you are required to kill to achieve it, yes but that doesn't always justify it. So kill only when you need to to achieve what you need. Just because your country is at war doesn't mean you kill everyone. In war, the justification is "is that person a threat?"

This is NEVER subjective.

My problem is number 3

you keep repeating VALID REASON

so?

what is the 'objective list' of valid reasons

there is none

?

Read what I said

hi

are you guys talking about abortion