Feminism has women act as victims *when it suits them*. Giving women responsibility may mean them being seen as having more agency in society than is given to them, but I wouldn't really put this under rights or power, especially as being able to use the card of having no agency can be said to be a power.

That is my point, if you give someone responsibility you give them agency.

And sure, perhaps 'rights and power' is a little bit of a misnomer.

but I do agree that the 'women and children' thing, when you think about it is a little, is quite surreal.

You're effectively saying that you deserve all the rights and protections of the powerless whilst being mandated socially to have equal power to those who have rights and responsibilities - but also repercussions and consequences.

I've actually just been talking about this with a female friend who has found out a friend of hers was being abused for years without anyone knowing about it.

His gf not letting him see friends, hitting him, not letting him use his phone at home when with her.. just suffering in silence because there is no outreach available. No shelters. When he finally went to the police, they wouldn't prosecute his case despite being one of the worst they've seen, because they only prosecute cases with >90% chance of success now.

And female on male DV isn't in that bracket.

It's truly sickening.

That's horrible, I hope he's doing better now. I agree with women should be given equal responsibility in the courts and in law. I stead we seem to be going further away from that, with feminism arguing that prison isn't the best place for women. Well no shit, it's not the best place for anyone, people go there to be punished and rehabilitated. It's a reasonable argument to say there needs to be widespread prison reform, but not to only apply that to a single sex.

From what I understand she's still trying to log into his online accounts and 'stalk him', so yes, it is an ongoing thing when you have so little legal ability to give her repercussions.

I am curious actually, do you have any videos anyone would recommend to someone just 'dipping their feet' and not wanting to be blown away with a bunch of circumcision posts and hypocritical twitter screen caps?

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/alff37/incredible_comp_of_anti_feminism_evidence_long

If anyone wants to see more about the hypocricy of feminists.

@Rockstar I always recommend the film American Circumcision, especially since its on Netflix

Is there anything a little.. US centric? Not that I don't understand it is an issue many people advocate strongly on (and rightly so) - but as a European it is... in many cases pretty hard to get your head around a whole business of chopping bits of genitals off little babies. Perhaps something about inequality in courts/prisons/dv etc?

Oh lemme check

https://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-bloomfield/2014/08/5-legal-rights-women-have-that-men-dont/

I think this one is for america

Cheers. They're good points. I was going to suggest The Red Pill but was looking for something on youtube a little more bite sizes, long form style.

But it's sobering to realise it just isn't being funded right now.

Yeah, The Red pill was what got me into MRA in the first place. I had to do a lot of research to find all those stuff and its sad really because you realize how stacked the whole world is against MRAs in general.

I'm not sure I agree with that.

I think there is a danger to embrace the very same 'victim complex' which we so readily mock when it applies to Feminism. I do think that MRAs have a huge image problem though, and it is hard to pin down a good 'angle of attack' to be able to convey it to a wider public.

You look at the gender pay gap and the reason it has lasted so long is because it does exist - but it does so for reasons other than the ones they represent.

So perhaps the important aspect is to figure out how to find a similar 'uniting' cause, otherwise, imo the issues become too spread out - it becomes too easy to paint MRA as 'against women' and 'against feminism'... although I've noticed the reddit sub at least does a relatively good job of trying to upvote cases of unfairness as much as twitter screenshots sometimes.

But bigger picture? ... imo you'll have a pushback and it'll look a lot cruder and more violent than MRA - it would be vastly better if we were able to get to a useful dialogue earlier, to be able to advocate for people to be equal in all ways rather than just the ways it suits..

But it seems a long way off.

I mean, as far as I have seen, MRAs have always been the one actually willing to talk, present facts and debate. But feminism has been the dominang narrative for all these years that just the idea of male opression sounds laughable to most people. Hell, I'd say most men dont even know most of the things we talk about here, or just dismiss them as less important.

Also, MRAs bash feminism and for a very good reason. For one thing feminists have directly or indirectly hurt men in a lot of cases, stripping them of rights and mocking them every time they try to talk about them. On the other hand the same people claim that feminism cares about both men and women, so you can see why men get frustrated over their sheer hypocricy.

Oh I agree, the strength is the debate, the ability to present the facts in a different way and 'uncover' the prejudice.

But the problem with most of the modern discourse is you see it on twitter.. you see it being a very closed ecosystem.. People follow others with similar beliefs...

there is no consistent dissenting voice most of these people actually get to see.

So all you see for years is confirmation bias, and imo that makes the job of MRA more difficult because people simply don't believe you're presenting the facts and that those facts exist. it is fingers in the ears lalalala style discussion in many cases.

Yeah for sure

Imo the true difficulty does lay with toxic masculinity and the problem of admitting 'male weakness' exists.

Its not just people tho. The media are so engaged in this as well

Because ironically it goes against the type of chauvinism which many women (who are non feminist) buy in to. The idea of the male role being the 'strong one' who provides and protects.

Which is where we are back to 'toxic masculinity', but not in the way the feminists would have you believe. Because when I think about it, the only way you're going to see MRA 'explode' into the mainstream has to be admitting that aspect of toxic masculinity (the requirement to be masculine and strong at all times) is limiting and also obliterates any possibility to open up a narrative about areas where men are downtrodden and under-represented, if not downtrodden.

you only need to look at the reaction to the number of men and boys in education and their performance to see the reaction from feminists and the mainstream.

'fuck them, we need more women in stem' - to see we need to open that door, imo, to be able to get to everything else.

The problem is this is also the same door which many women are attracted to. It's a catch-22.