I wonder why, going from debt treadmill fiats to actual money with value

It's because sovereign fiat is far superior for a good economy

So what's the value of a fiat.

What is the actual value

How much does cotton paper and ink cost?

It's like the penny costing more money to mint than it's worth because reasons

The value in fiat comes from the state. It's what the state does business in, and it's what the state demands in taxes.

What is the value

What is the actual value

What is the actual value of gold?

How much?

Let's say 1 ounce

Also, the worth of material currencies is set by the fact it's literally worth a fixed amount of X, not as some algorithmic abstraction of state power and enforced value.

State power isn't an abstraction

It absolutely is

Don't pay your taxes and see how abstract it really is.

What's the exact ratio of state power between the US and UK?

What gives it the X value? How is the worth of the material calculated, I think is the question, at least the one I have

To be clear I'm not on one side or the other I just want to clarify

Worth is subjective, obviously. Lets say for instance that 1 ounce is 1 gold note. the worth of the gold is then, obviously, based on fractions or multiples of the base unit.

So the worth of a given weight of X is then basic division

Gold is no less subjective than fiat.

How would we deicide how much of X is worth how much of currency in the first place?

Fiat has no logical basic unit

You just decide X is 1 monies.

Yeah, gold's value is subjective as well.

Benis, you consistently drink the retard juice

So you arbitrarily decide the initial unit and extrapolate from there?

The point of gold-backing is not the value of gold itself, it's the basing of a economy on physical goods

Rather than paying debt bonds for physical goods

Which is retarded because then there's not enough money supply

The government spends the money before selling debt bonds.

The government has no money, they pay in debt bonds

Debt bonds are only there to drain excess reserve.

A federal reserve note is literally a unit of debt

I know.

Because the government has to take out a loan of reserve notes from the central bank, then pay off that loan with a new loan

In a single economy scenario, a fiat currency is fine. The government says 1 money is worth 1 money.

Whatever

The problem is multiple regional economies integrating with fiat currency

The government doesn't take out loans, debt bonds are there to drain excess reserves. The government can pay for as much as it wants, with the only limitations being inflation and actual physical limitations of labor, resources, etc.