Ultimately, it’s up to them. But answers, concepts, other ways of looking at things, etc. are staring them in the face, and it’s frustrating seeing all of it in motion to keep systems and cycles continuing

Could I also interject a question: are you using “slave morality” as a negative or derogatory term? You also lump hedonism, nihilism, and consumerism together as “slave masters”; how do you mean?

Well, arguably the system has been built on the backs of men who lived in traditional ways. Men who are going their own way ARE changing the system slowly.

Arguably, at this point, "prolonged adolescence" is what's needed to "change the world".

No, just in a Nietzschean sense of it. Good people, nice people, great people, etc. fall into it too. Hedonism, nihilism, and consumerism have you chasing things for fulfillment like cars, sex, anything for the dopamine. Something more like asceticism and examining your life will do you more good and frees you from yourself, if that makes sense. The passions, reason

Prolonged adolescence are traditional ways

I personally feel as though the only world worth changing is your own, and no society or system can largely influence that.

That’s kinda what I’ve been saying, but your world doesn’t exist in a vacuum

How is prolonged adolescence traditional?

High school sports, high school jokes, high school hanging out, parties on weekends, chasing girls and high school drama, it all continues into their 20s and 30s

They’re blue pilled, but not 4chan types. Their validation comes from popularity, what car they have, women, etc.

That's always been the case in society for the past century. The only difference is that it was balanced with the family structure, which was changed and ultimately removed with the rise of feminism. So why should men be concerned with bringing back family structure when it only was of the benefit of women? Without the family structure, only more freedom to self-actualize and find meaning are left for men. Those things that you believe are what men are born to do.

All men?

Yes.

Final answer.

I think we’re on the same page here

Perhaps. Seems you're just frustrated with men not living up to their potential? Where as I don't care and feel like it's their life, so fuck it.

Yeah, TFM’s a big influence on me in this area

Or perhaps you’re frustrated with the sense that you’re not living up to your own potential?

I've had a serious issue with the responsibilities and social expectations placed on men as early as 16 years old when it became clear to me that women were deeply in favor. At least 10 years before finding MGTOW. I think a man decides his potential.

And I find anyone placing expectations on men deeply insulting in general.

@MufflePuff Any expectations?

**ANY**. People should mind their fucking business. (@lotodantes not directed at you, bruv)

I have a deep rage for people directing the lives of men.

I didn’t say directives.

I'm just venting now.... **pours vodka**

almost time for the gym

Do you think responsibility should come with expectations? Or vice versa?

>pours vodka
>almost time for gym

Sweat that shit out, son!

I think a man decides his responsibilities and expects the best of **himself** to get that shit **done**.

Day by day, brick by brick, and the opinions of ANYONE else are null and **void**.

Well, those opinions can’t entirely be null and void if they’re not allowed to weigh in on others. That’s an expectation, in and of itself, isn’t it?

Weigh on others? Sharing ideas is crucial to gaining perspective, but influence from others should be filtered at all times.

And if his chosen responsibilities and expectations incur a cost on someone else?

I think you should gain as much perspective from as many sources as possible. That's just intel, you should never change course unless it's deemed internally necessary.

A cost to someone else? That depends but largely I believe in the process of nature. The strongest will survive. Depends on the situation though. Rarely should your decisions truly affect others.

Rarer still do your decisions not.

🤔

I can't decide if I disagree, never notice or simply don't care.

You should try not to impede on others, but your main objective should never be compromised for others.

I didn’t mean as an impedance, to be clear.