Message from @Monstrous Moonshine

Discord ID: 681660309437415436


2020-02-25 00:03:46 UTC  

Also cass, their markets would shrink if the rest of the world blew up, as there isn’t any trade and specialization from the outside @Cassiopeia

2020-02-25 00:05:33 UTC  

I think it's much more likely that humankind will have evolved multiple times before it even needs to start worrying about Earth's resources.

2020-02-25 00:06:06 UTC  

Resource management like forestation and clean seas is our only real concern.

2020-02-25 00:06:22 UTC  

Oil, coal, natural gas, rare earth elements, fertile land, clean water, clean air, sheer space. Just to name a few

2020-02-25 00:06:44 UTC  

Yeah that's what really matters, that we don't ruin what we already have,.

2020-02-25 00:06:44 UTC  

Also we are destroying the environment

2020-02-25 00:07:00 UTC  

Yeah we are, that's the main concern.

2020-02-25 00:08:39 UTC  

Anyway, it's bedtime for me. Nice to see the direction of this channel is looking up. There's no emote that properly expresses how I feel about that, so here's a <:angrypepe:497157904743268363> for a subversion of my true feelings.

2020-02-25 00:21:48 UTC  

No Stalin actually set quotas for the systematic killing in Ukraine. You could say he was more *organized* than Hitler but they had the same plan. And as ET points out you can switch the word 'proletariat' and 'aryan' and get the same result.

Beyond that they both had a socialist concept of what production is and it showed in their approach. Ideas like "What could we trade to Ukraine" and "How can we increase Ukrainian yields and efficiency" never entered their thinking. Outside of a faith based idea that collectivization or Aryan farmers would somehow produce this result.

You can say, "Outside of socialism doesn't count!" all you like. But when two sweets taste similar it is hard to explain why without mentioning they are both made of chocolate and sugar.....

2020-02-25 00:25:16 UTC  

<:cuckertarlson:462285973724856320>

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/680587502918041623/681657932848693284/What.mp4

2020-02-25 00:25:48 UTC  

Again, to your last comment, I’ve explained why they’re different in pretty good detail. But I guess nationalism is the same as globalism to you. As you don’t seem to think it’s a important difference

You can’t switch out Aryan and Proletariat 100%. The Aryans were put in a victim revenge narrative sure, but they’re still a ethnic group with a common culture, language and history

And again, yeah with production, so economics...

2020-02-25 00:25:50 UTC  

>mrw reading this crap of ultimate reductionist straw grasping to equate Hitler and Stalin

2020-02-25 00:26:25 UTC  

1. Communists advocate for worker control of the means of production, eradication of all hierarchy, including identity, ethnicity, race, gender, sex, class, heritage and history, abolition of Nation states in favor of internationalism and legalization of all kinds of degeneracy. Fascism is culturally Far Right and Economically Centrist, with a Corporatist (different from Corporatocracy) style economy, with military endeavors limited to Irredentism and self defense (Nazis reclaiming greater Germany, for instance).

2. Communists view the Nation state as illegitimate. They want a global world order of a rootless shopping mall, inhabited by hedonist, deracinated, atomized individuals. Fascists are Palingenetic Ultranationalists who see the Nation state as a people tied by culture, history, tradition and blood and an extended family where the people feel they are in the same boat to pursue a greater destiny.

3. Communists are Materialists devoid of any guiding spiritual principles. Fascists see Nations as a Civilization having a grand destiny beyond the Individual and have a vision for the spiritual rebirth of the Nation to achieve this ideal.
You could say that both in some ways are Collectivists, which I'll agree with. But to equate them in any meaningful way beyond that is absurd.

2020-02-25 00:27:09 UTC  

You see that? That’s the difference between the two without economics

2020-02-25 00:27:35 UTC  

Maybe you can read

2020-02-25 00:27:39 UTC  

All the crap you see today with Pink Capitalism is directly linked to the ultimate agenda of Anarchists to destroy gender, sex and race

2020-02-25 00:28:09 UTC  

Methods of wealth distribution are but a means to an end to an eventual society devoid of hierarchy

2020-02-25 00:32:25 UTC  

Well except that they are all wrong. For instance Stalin (who's treaties on politics was *Socialism in One Nation* immediately proportioned his conquests into nation states. Ethnic ones at that because he moved people to E Germany, Poland, Yugoslavia etc. etc. based on ethnicity.

And you're also wrong about degeneracy and hedonism. The Soviets outlawed pornography and were highly restrictive of any expression outside the narrow construct of the state. As to these differing heroic visions as you see it again if you swap the word 'proletariat' and 'aryan' once again you get remarkably similar glorified idealistic vissions.

2020-02-25 00:33:44 UTC  

I mean it's not like the heroic soviet man was any less common in the propaganda than the ubermensch. If you are saying they differed in the propaganda they used to express their socialist ideas we agree.

2020-02-25 00:34:42 UTC  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_society
> In Marxist thought, communist society or the communist system is the type of society and economic system postulated to emerge from technological advances in the productive forces, representing the ultimate goal of the political ideology of communism. **A communist society is characterized by common ownership of the means of production with free access to the articles of consumption and is classless and stateless, implying the end of the exploitation of labour.**

> Marx also wrote that between capitalist and communist society, there would be a transitory period known as the dictatorship of the proletariat. During this preceding phase of societal development, capitalist economic relationships would gradually be abolished and replaced with socialism. Natural resources would become public property, while all manufacturing centers and workplaces would become socially owned and democratically managed. Production would be organized by scientific assessment and planning, thus eliminating what Marx called the "anarchy in production". The development of the productive forces would lead to the marginalization of human labor to the highest possible extent, to be gradually replaced by automated labor.

2020-02-25 00:36:41 UTC  

Any "Nationalism" (a misattribution since Marxists hold the view of tabula rasa and multiracial and multiethnic states, so the correct term would be statism) of Marxists is a transitional state to create the "New Communist Man" for an eventual global Communism devoid of state.

2020-02-25 00:37:11 UTC  

Well sure but Marx's description doesn't describe either the Soviet Union **or** Nazi Germany. Turns out almost all of Marx's ideas were wrong...

2020-02-25 00:38:05 UTC  

Once again, read my thorough paragraph on the differences in the theoretical underpinnings of Fascism and Communism. They are diametrically opposite.

2020-02-25 00:38:37 UTC  

Do you think Nazi Germany, and the USSR were the same by the same belief systems? The same visions of the future?

2020-02-25 00:39:28 UTC  

They were formed from the same root idea. Ford your argument would also mean that the USSR wasn't communist because it did not fit Marx's vision.

2020-02-25 00:39:41 UTC  

No, they were.

2020-02-25 00:39:45 UTC  

I mean, it wasn’t, communism is impossible

2020-02-25 00:40:02 UTC  

Nothing, in the real world, fits Marx's idea because Marx had no understanding of the world.

2020-02-25 00:40:33 UTC  

Sure, so the only reason the USSR ended up looking like Nazi Germany is because Nazi Germany was more based in reality?

2020-02-25 00:40:44 UTC  

Whatever deviations existed were due to human imperfections. The ideals that motivated the Bolshevik Revolution and the brutal killing of the Tsar family were motivated by Marx's Communism and would be impossible were there a Fascist revolution instead.

2020-02-25 00:41:04 UTC  

No. They both turned out murderous and dehumanizing because that is the nature of socialism.

2020-02-25 00:41:41 UTC  

It is like talking to a brick wall lmao

2020-02-25 00:41:45 UTC  

Yeah

2020-02-25 00:41:57 UTC  

Anyway, I gtg for now

2020-02-25 00:42:02 UTC  

Cya

2020-02-25 00:42:17 UTC  

In that when your ideology strikes a wall it is not the wall that gives....

2020-02-25 00:43:03 UTC  

So the only reason nazis were violent was because of a economic doctrine? That’s interesting

2020-02-25 00:43:38 UTC  

Maybe if Hitler was a free market type, he would have had his realm without firing a single shot

2020-02-25 00:44:09 UTC  

Before going, I'd like to recommend this great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d9vlqoERco

2020-02-25 00:47:14 UTC  

Because of ideology. Socialists do not recognize the human nature of production. They see it as some natural phenomena that can be harnessed and directed by the state. This leads to envisioning people and things in a certain way. And that leads to the violence.