Message from @SYDWAD

Discord ID: 602448718834171906


2019-07-21 10:25:29 UTC  

or perhaps even without the guise of automation if incentivisation methods are used

2019-07-21 10:25:49 UTC  

but that devolves into what is essentially a currency in some form

2019-07-21 10:25:53 UTC  

so it wouldn't be communism, more like collectivist anarchism

2019-07-21 10:28:12 UTC  

fully automated communism isnt communism. You would name it something else, communism is outlined primarily by making people do their fair share and receive it too. Its not fixing it its just changing the subject. Running the whole country isnt a political ideology its like saying "no need to fix roads if we just make them all out of diamond" there is an end goal but with no path its useless. If we could automate everything in life we would.
How about i start the party of the dyson sphere, we are going to do that.

2019-07-21 10:29:46 UTC  

Communism is outlined by making people do as much as they want and taking what they want

2019-07-21 10:30:06 UTC  

If there was a step by step plan with tested outcomes like democratic constitutional republics (the USA) then i would be on board

2019-07-21 10:30:14 UTC  

Alright

2019-07-21 10:30:46 UTC  

Well I want to make it clear i'm not a state socialist nor a accelerationist or even a revolutionary

2019-07-21 10:31:21 UTC  

I'm a voluntaryist at heart and I'd like to see gradual change through market anarchism towards 'fully-automated luxury communism'

2019-07-21 10:31:37 UTC  

"by making people do as much as they want and taking what they want"
people inherently want to do as little as possible and take everything, thats why we are the #1 species, we are efficient and ingenuitive

2019-07-21 10:31:56 UTC  

Indeed, and in a fully automated world where scarcity isn't the issue we would be liberated to do so

2019-07-21 10:32:07 UTC  

The ultimate liberation

2019-07-21 10:33:14 UTC  

by the nature of reality there will always be scarcity, and in history we always grow to fill the excess either through population or industry, post scarcity is impossible

2019-07-21 10:33:23 UTC  

The choice to hobby what is hard to do and what is slothful, 'work' would be a concept of the past in the traditional sense but the hard working could work hard and the not so hard-working; so be it. I doubt people inherently want to do as little as possible, people have loyalties, passions.

2019-07-21 10:33:47 UTC  

If the rate of change of supply is greater than the rate of change of demand and we have a substantial value of supply then we have essentially achieved post-scarcity

2019-07-21 10:34:27 UTC  

if you can work at 0.8 speed and not get fired but if you work at 1.5 speed you gain nothing what will you choose?

2019-07-21 10:34:50 UTC  

i.e. : If I have 10x more chickens than humans and the rate of human consumption is Y and the rate of chicken growth is 2Y then i've achieved post scarcity

2019-07-21 10:34:55 UTC  

Depends on how much I care about the business

2019-07-21 10:35:20 UTC  

in a market socialist climate you would effectively eliminate such behaviour as the workers would be working towards their own business cause

2019-07-21 10:35:31 UTC  

'Worker Capitalism' in essence

2019-07-21 10:36:07 UTC  

there always is a limit to economic growth though, either it be political bloating or inability to communicate and trade past a interstellar distance there alwas is a limit

2019-07-21 10:36:34 UTC  

As i've said prior there is 'effective post-scarcity'

2019-07-21 10:36:40 UTC  

and i've outlied how it can be achieved

2019-07-21 10:37:15 UTC  

But sure, if such were the case I would be happy to contend with the previous iteration: Left wing market anarchism or some form of mutualism for the time being

2019-07-21 10:38:01 UTC  

not to mention people's wants are relative, today its hell if you cant have the internet or water in your home. But that would be welcome conditions compared to 500 years ago.

2019-07-21 10:38:34 UTC  

If you grew up with your own planet and an army of servants you will see that as the base line and want more if possible

2019-07-21 10:38:55 UTC  

Sure, but a lot of these needs can be quantified under a capitalist mindset

2019-07-21 10:39:05 UTC  

actually this video explains it very well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kt7883oTd0

2019-07-21 10:39:28 UTC  

If certain goods are simply status objects and status disappears wouldn't the demand for the goods also disappear?

2019-07-21 10:39:50 UTC  

if you grow up with a baseline and that is always how you lived your life you will see yourself as impoverished if you fall below that

2019-07-21 10:39:51 UTC  

We are currently already producing 1.5x the world populations demand in food supplies

2019-07-21 10:40:42 UTC  

but then again if you can own planets and armies, then would scarcity be an issue at that point?

2019-07-21 10:42:10 UTC  

(Side note: Isaac arthur makes some cool vids, shame I haven't seen a lot of them, I'll check this one out)

2019-07-21 10:45:11 UTC  

my point on that is that people always want more, if you have "planets and armies" of your own that is the base line, there is no loose extra resources that just sit there unused, they are used by those with the means to produce or collect them. that extra .5 food is being used by the people with the means to make it. If you take it and give it to people without, the people who produced it will stop because it does not benefit them. Its like saying "you can pump water for yourself but if you try pump more to fill your pool we will take it and give it away" why would you try fill your pool to no avail? its a waste of time so you wont pump it, now that extra 0.5 has gone *poof*

2019-07-21 10:46:08 UTC  

it no longer exists

2019-07-21 10:46:25 UTC  

"the problem with communism is eventually you run out of other people's money"

2019-07-21 10:46:31 UTC  

Right, I acknowledge that the system cannot be transformed viably until every resource reaches post-scarcity

2019-07-21 10:47:10 UTC  

but it cant, there are no extra resources not being used, even if wastefully we only make what we want at that moment

2019-07-21 10:47:52 UTC  

Of course there are: *looks to space*

2019-07-21 10:48:12 UTC  

plus most of the issues are labor related with labor costs and efficiency

2019-07-21 10:48:16 UTC  

the machines arent going to make massive stockpiles to never be touched again they will use them to make more machines and infostructure