The majority of people know killing, stealing etcetera is wrong

Some people don’t, or they justify it in some way

Oh shit nigga

>TFW <:pepe_eyes:378719408362881024>

And one might make the case that if natural law is transcendent and immutable, then the holocaust could not have been part of german culture

Since the holocaust was something that only happened under the nazis

Thus making it a part of nazi culture

And Nazi’s aren’t necessarily Germans

They were back in the day, but one can be Nazi and not German

I like how you're simultaneously conflating culture/ideology and morality/principles/ethics

it's nice

So what do you think of natural law then?

Does it dictate us?

No, natural law is what humans wrote down as an observation of mutually beneficial behavior

It's like saying scientists are obliged to follow the scientific method

They just *do it* as a quality of BEING a scientist

Do they not also do it because if they claim something without using the scientific method said claim is disregarded by the scientific community?

Basically making it essential for a scientist

Well yeah, it helps, but if they don't "use it", then they're not really doing science in the first place.

A self-respecting one that is

It was a half assed metaphor anyways, but you get my point. It's a chicken/egg thing

Yeah

Regarding the law thing, I think most are made out of interest

Like I said, property rights could be seen as people with property wanting protection for their shit without them having to guard it 24/7

Thus making a law for it so that they can prosecute someone violating their property rights

No, not really at all

It's more like "What are some common denominators that are considered 'OK' for people to be violent over?"

Life, Liberty, Property

In any of those situations, the common person would be like "Oh, okay, I understand. Yeah, he's free to go."

So, in a sense, "natural rights" although existing in a hypothetical 'Natural stateless society' still presupposes that there *is indeed a society.*

Natural rights do not exist in a vacuum.

Yes, they need people and they need an organized society

Because if there are certain rights you need to be able to guarantee them

Not what I meant, tbh

And if there are certain laws you need to be able to enforce them

Let me rephrase: Natural rights presuppose that there is someone around to violate them in the first place.

There could be, but there is no guarantee that there is

Stop and rethink that

What I meant is that there is no absolute guarantee that there will be someone around to violate said rights

There very well could be though

okay, I feel like we're talking past each other here