I get that

But it's still a dumb word to use.

my standard for objectivity is quite a bit lower, so the aesthetic objectivists have a good argument

so saying like "9/10 people agree" that doesn't fit google's definition.

its not a dumb word to use, people understand what you're talking about

if you want to be super strict about the definition of objective

then nothing meets it

because nothing is both mind-independent and comprehensible

Yeah, okay, I get that.

Okay so there is objective taste but not in a literal sense.

merriam webster "of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers : having reality independent of the mind"

independent of individual thought

So from a spiritualist or a materialist standpoint there are beauty standards that we regard as objectively good.

the point is that there is a ***really existing quality*** in great works of literature that is ***really capable*** of producing greater depth of emotion (whatever physical reality that corresponds to) in human beings

compared to a hentai doujin

There are hentai doujins that I beleive have emotional depth, though.

Only one, actually. Emergence.

yeah but its probably not the same

I mean

you could even say that that doujin may be objectively more beautiful than other doujins

Ok, not depth, but it can induce an emotional reaction from the reader, which isn't depth. There are plenty of doujins that would make you feel disgust, and that dosen't mean they have depth.

But I do like Emergence, but I was exaggerating when I compared it to Oedipus Rex.

Or Oldboy.

most doujins are probably not written with the objective of having depth

maybe an artist could try to make one that is really deep

Emergence is still good and I think it had greater intentions. Most sexual or pornographic anime and manga that I'd consider deep are ones that are on the borderline where people legitimately question whether it could be classed as pornography. I think a piece of pornographic media can have depth.

There's tonnes of early 90s anime that are extremely sexually explicit, like Devilman, that have emotional depth and a purpose beyond arousing the viewer.

But I'm going on a tangent.

Though I think there's a huge gap between explicit sex and nudity as artistic expression and 10 year olds watching incest porn on their parent's Ipad, which I certainly don't approve of.

Putting sexually explicit art in the same category as what you'd see on pornhub is dishonest, I think.

rofl

@Weaboo Kempeitai are you trying to dodge the porn ban? 🤣

I swear guys, its artistic!

I don't want the porn ban to hinder healthy and good artistic expression, yes.

Sex can absolutely be artistic and a vehicle for good storytelling and character development.

its for the greater good weaboo, don't be so individualistic 😂

And yet, many pieces of classical European literature are sexually explicit.

Oldboy is generally the example I use the most because it's critically acclaimed and is regarded by many as one of the best movies ever made.

But yeah, you can't really have mature storytelling without sex. There's basically zero reason not to include sex in a piece of mature media. The media is intended for adults, and most adults are mature enough to deal with and view these subject matters.

I mean, that's my position but I know some people who would vehemently disagree. 🤷‍♂️