But he was a Jewish controlled psychopath of an economist though so I still tend to oppose him.

My phone's dying so I'll jump back on after it charges a bit

Keynes sucks

Cool

Yeah, in Africa, free markets have really helped them make progress (in the areas they actually get applied).

On an earlier point, Greek vs Roman freedom

Greek freedom is freedom to govern oneself (this is imo a really good approach to freedom and should allocate resources efficiently). Roman freedom is freedom to do as you please (this is what we have rn, and it actually doesn't allocate efficiently).

The issue is that on the outside, Roman freedom appears really good and efficient, but it isn't. The reason being that it falls to take into account a lot of moral externalities.

As an example, Roman freedom makes the porn industry look amazing because it makes a ton of money (producer surplus) and people get tons of dopamine (consumer surplus). The issue is there is a massive externality on the moral side of side this and in the rational side too.

The moral externalities should be obvious: lack of self-control, not honoring spouses, objectifying women, increase in promiscuity and sexual assault, human trafficking, I could go on and on.

The rational externalities are much more simple: Porn Induced Erectile Dysfunction and Porn Induced Premature Ejaculation and more importantly, addiction

Addiction poses a problem to our basic assumptions actually. One assumption in economics is that people make rational decisions. Addiction eliminates this.

So why doesn't the government regulate this? 1) tax revenue, 2) separation of church and state makes it hard to argue morality, 3) (((they))) are notoriously strong in all sorts of spots in the private and public realms, particularly the porn industry though. Why would the government want to piss off their friends?

I don't mean that at all in a conspiracy way though. (((They))) are in the same tribe as a lot of the government. You don't want to hurt your tribe. That's exactly what we're trying to protect over here right? 1488 and Traditionalism and all Christendom, etc.

Also, they deny the rational implications, saying it's not addicting and doesn't cause PIED or PILE, which is again due to tribalism because the sex industry says that and puts out propoganda and the government believes it.

So Greek freedom does not allow for this

Greek freedom says that because people are not acting rationally, we should curb this to the socially optimal consumption

How much is that? Well, 0. So we make it illegal

All very good points.

It's a good rhetorical tool to differentiate between the concept of freedom in Rome and Greece, but I would assume that there is a bit more nuance. Clearly the Romans had a great deal of discipline that comes with a proper understanding of conquering the ego. Stoicism was born in Rome, right?

We live in a society right now in which the slavery to materialism and sin is overwhelming. A natural corrective force will likely never come. The State is the best tool we have to return society to its proper course. People need discipline and it's not coming from family, Church, State, community, or nature right now. What will fill the void? I would prefer the Church and State to return to their old functions, but we can't wait around for that to happen on its own. Souls are damned and society slips more and more every second we wait for the Deus Ex Machina to come and save us.

Ergo, authoritarianism.

Stoicism is Greek

Rome hardly developed philosophy actually

By comparison at least

Whoops lol

I've undermined my ethos. Disregard all that I've said.

Lol

I mean it's not like some established concept of Greek vs Roman freedom, just a general idea of how Greeks and Romans viewed freedom when we look at their culture

TFW you learn Rome was actually shit compared to Greece.

pagan rome, that is

Not necessarily

They were better at some things and worse at others

Better at banding people together into an identity, better at war, better at Mass governance and management

Worse at philosophy, worse at morality,

Not very good on the eros vs agape distinction tho

Which is arguably one of the reasons why the fell, and one of the reasons why modern society is following suit

Worse at technology too

Yea

A lot worse actually

They were excellent architects and builders

And good at producing solid goods