Message from @RoadtoDawn
Discord ID: 592535149837680650
Nothing like this happens without God
There is no rogue saint or angel that appears without God lol
And what have these angels and saints taught exactly? What has been revealed to then that hasn't been before?
Prayers
Sometimes teachings
Usually revelation is accompanied with either prophecy or direction for correcting false doctrine.
At least if we use the Bible as an example.
There's some pretty wild things that have happened in the past 2000 years that we hear about, it has never really stopped
Yeah I could say the same about Pagan rituals too.
For sure
Or Hinduism, or any other sect
Absolutely
Why though are those amazing things not put into scripture?
Why is Canon closed?
I don't like assuming things are just the work of demons, we generally don't make assumptions like that. Trying to stay humble about the world
What does humility about the world mean? But still I'm wondering, why is canon closed? Why are the revelations you say are occurring not being put into scripture like any other pre NT time period?
Because calling people possessed isn't very nice lol
And they're pretty small scale revelations. It was a task of itself to put all of the necessary things into the bible that are there to begin with. Something isn't just simply added because it's part of the faith. Even the book of revelation took a while to be added
That doesn't explain why it's closed. Closed means there won't be anything new, not that there hasn't been.
Arguably a new prophet is more necessary now than it's ever been to reign in Christianity's fractured teachings.
Mainly because the Church decides what's authentic or not, what necessarily belongs and what doesn't necessarily belong. In general, it just wouldn't be suitable (or appropriate) to say those things are the same as the inspired Word of God. We also don't put things up against one another as if it were a contest, this is western/debatey dialectics. There's nothing wrong at all with having things like this outside the bible to complement (but not replace, nor override) the bible
And maybe, if we ourselves are asserting the objective authority that such a thing were necessary
So then you would agree then that the authority over the Bible's canon is determined by the church authorities, and not by God himself? Unless you believe that God literally speaks and directs the church authorities, which we've already determined isn't in a fashion anywhere near direct enough to say "these books are canon, these books are not."
If the church decides certain scriptures are unauthentic then there is something wrong with scriptures not in the canon. Essentially it's declaring them false and that they should be avoided as scripture.
The (Eastern) Church isn't too interested in going around saying what's false or what isn't. Things we know is authentic are taught. That's all
If someone brings a foreign idea up, we can see whether or not that idea is really justified enough to be taught. If it isn't, it's just not accepted
“I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.”
Revelation 22:18-19 ESV https://www.bible.com/bible/59/rev.22.18-19.esv
Scripture is complete.
*according to scripture*
@Salacious Swanky Cat A similar warning appears in Deuteronomy. Plus Revelation was written before the four Gospels. That warning applies only to the book of Revelation itself. Unless of course you believe the four Gospels are heretical.
Revelations quotes the gospels so no.
Revelation was written after the gospels
Wikipedia on the book of Revelation "The bulk of traditional sources date the book to the reign of the Roman emperor Domitian (AD 81–96), and the evidence tends to confirm this.[4]"
For the gospels: The four canonical gospels—Matthew, Mark, Luke and John—were probably written between AD 66 and 110,[2][3]
So yeah, I was wrong, it's John that's believed to be written after. https://www.biblestudytools.com/resources/guide-to-bible-study/order-books-new-testament.html
Either way, revelation isn't the last book in the Bible chronologically, so my point still stands. Revelation does not say you can't have any more scripture. By that logic all scriptures after Deuteronomy are invalid. It's much more reasonable to assume John was writing about the book of Revelation itself, not the Bible as a whole as the Bible didn't technically exist at the time of it's writing.
That list dates Revelation to AD 68. You just quoted Wikipedia that it's after (81-96).
It's generally thought that Revelation was written shortly after John wrote his gospel, which would make it the last book chronologically. Putting that logic aside I'm willing to grant that John referred only to Revelation itself. However, there is no evidence to suggest that Canon is still open.
That list was just a second source. No one totally agrees on the exact dates or ranges. Revelation very well could and likely was written before some of the other books as some sources put it at the same time as John and his Epistles or before.
What's the evidence for Canon being closed through divine revelation?
There are no modern prophets that pass the test of Deuteronomy 18:22
Furthermore, what was considered canonical was determined pretty early on
Could there be new revelation today? Yes. Is there good evidence for it? No.
"what was considered canonical was determined pretty early on" yes, only three hundred years after the apostles deaths, and it was debated regularly till the 13th century.
If you take Deut 18:22 any prophet prophecying of the second coming of Christ isn't a prophet until it happens. It's not like there is a time frame given.
I'm not arguing that there have been any new prophets, but the idea that canon is closed means that there won't be any new canonical scripture. Unless of course it's reopened, but that process would take hundreds of years and no one would agree on it.
Most of what was considered Canon was recognized as such before AD 170