@uncephalized
*"I think he means 'and you mock me' in a more general sense implying that I am guilty of the same word-salad essays I sometimes make fun of him for."*
No, for saying I don't know what I'm talking about. 🤣
I don't have the essay on line. It's burried somewhere in my laptop.
Solar's intisl costs are high*er* than some options, but the costs come down rapidly; My folks solar paid itself off in 5 years. Since this involves for-profit purposes, the ROI should pay itself off in one year... As ehem, *YOU* pointed out (*"solar works fine"*).
Still irrelevant, unless you propose to build a slot racers track at 1:1 scale. 🤣
In both considerations, we bottle it and ship it either by truck, rail, or pipeline. (And you call me an *"unsympathetic debator."* 🤣)
A tax break isn't taxpayer support. It's an incentive to innovate. 🤣

@Salacious Swanky Cat
There are cars already on the road that run on hydrogen, but hey no problem.

I for one give so many negative fucks what *environmentalists* want they couldn't pay the bill in a million years. These are the same sort of people who joined antifa. They can suck my cock. 👿
No, my only motivation is stopping the damage from getting worse, and that means environmental and economic. Hydrogen has net zero damage and reduces economic effects;
***IIRC*** (and I know I'm off but bear with me), right now it costs 25¢ per loaf of bread to move it from a warehouse to a store. By using a source costing 4¢ per mile versus 12¢ per mile, that reduces the *final mile* price respectively, and that savings amplifies the more points along the line it's applied. Reducing the farmer's yearly fuel prices from $2,ØØØ to even $1,5ØØ means he sells wheat at the lower cost.

Que the "holy wall" whines...

*holy wall!*

The infrastructure for battery electric cars is far cheaper and easier to install than hydrogen cars and there are far more battery models available, which are also cheaper than the one commercially available hydrogen car.

Plus, battery prices are reducing faster than fuel cell prices.

Hydrogen costs far more per unit of energy. I think at $16 per gallon equivalent versus the $1-2 per gallon equivalent for electricity.

Hydrogen will be used but it will only be niche

@Mandatory Carry *"No, for saying I don't know what I'm talking about."*

Show me where I said this.

*"I don't have the essay on line. It's burried somewhere in my laptop."*

Is it something you wrote? Or an actual study?

*"Solar's intisl costs are higher than some options, but the costs come down rapidly; My folks solar paid itself off in 5 years. Since this involves for-profit purposes, the ROI should pay itself off in one year... "*

The Lazard paper Sal posted above says cost is close to gas, so maybe you are right. My other questions remain unanswered.

*"As ehem, YOU pointed out ("solar works fine")."*

I was saying that it *functions* for purpose the same as any other source of power. Not that it is economically viable.

*"Still irrelevant, unless you propose to build a slot racers track at 1:1 scale. 🤣"*

I explained exactly why it was relevant; the primary competitor is batteries, which use grid power.

*"In both considerations, we bottle it and ship it either by truck, rail, or pipeline."*

And I pointed out that the transportation and storage are vastly different and more complicated for hydrogen, which you continue to ignore.

*"(And you call me an "unsympathetic debator." 🤣)"*

Yes. I don't believe I've accused you of lying or pointed a single 🤣 in your direction in this entire conversation.

@uncephalized that report only states that for utility scale not rooftop solar

Rooftop is more expensive than anything

yes but I am being charitable and assuming he means utility scale power since we are talking about mass hydrogen production

Without subsidies

Ok

Oh and also @Mandatory Carry *"A tax break isn't taxpayer support. It's an incentive to innovate. 🤣"* Of course it is taxpayer support. The amount of shortfall in the budget caused by the tax incentive must be made up by other tax revenue or borrowing at interest, which causes inflation, which is a form of tax.

That's like if you owe me $100 and I forgive half the debt. I have effectively paid you $50.

Money is fungible.

*Called it.*
Battery powered cars don't have the capacity to move product effectively, and don't have the range for most commits and how did I know...
What.
@uncephalized
A dozen damned times now.
... That essay was part of my degree, but no, it wasn't a study per se.
¿What other question?
As I pointed out, a personal use solar array paid itself off in five years.
You can't maintain batteries over any period of time, and forget about bread deliveries.
The same basic theories apply either way, and you know perfectly well that's what I meant, but *I'm* the *"unsympathetic debator."*
I accuse people if lying for lying. Go back and actually read it this time. Even Shannon WATTS read it honestly... She caught it first. (That was *after* she dubbed me the *Mandatory Carry Faggot,"* but anyways...)
Oh. My bad. "Uncharitable."
A shortfall in budget on an industry that wouldn't have existed but for the tax break isn't a shortfall; You can't say *"We're not gonna make money off of something that doesn't exist"* and call it a *"support,"* Alexandria. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I give up, @Mandatory Carry , you're right about everything and I just wanted you to know.

I don’t need more than 250 miles of range for a car.

I also don’t want to spend more than 40k on a new car.

And I also don’t want to spend 100 dollars every time I fill up a fuel cell tank.

Sure, 600 miles of range was nice the *one time* I've driven that far, but electric cars can still satisfy most people for most driving situations

Exactly. Battery powered electric cars will dominate in the near future because they will ultimately be the cheapest form of personal transportation.

I couldn't do an electric car for my job

I still think that Fuel cells may ultimately power commercial planes too.

@Clive distance or load?

I drive around a lot to various place for clients, a lot of them are in the boonies

farms, nurseries, dispensaries

What is your average daily mileage ?

@Clive

Minimum, 66 home-work-home
Max, that plus 100 miles

or more

Um. An electric car would definitely work for that.

my point is i have no where to charge it

Infrastructure is a huge issue for electric cars tbh

You’ll charge it at home.

how?

Get a plug installed.

eh

That’s how you would do it.

I'm gonna move sooner than that i hope