I had a similar conversation yesterday about Kanye West's "slavery was a choice" comment. When he realized I wasn't playing ball, it turned into an "agree to disagree" conversation.

What does Kanye mean by that?

So there's 2 things he means by that. First is the slavery mentality. This is often talked about in our circles about how we believe ourselves to be victims and we serve on the plantations of our victimhood

As Jordan Peterson puts it, victims are also victimizers

The second point he makes, and this is where things get messy is the difference between a choice and an ultimatum

That’s exactly what happens mate @SteelandSouls , once you go on the “but it’s all unrelated bs” they just drop the ball and go away

I’m almost inclined to believe no one wants to have a discussion in good faith anymore

Ok. So you think it’s more in the context of the current mentality

By a very literal definition of choice, Kanye is right. You either choose to live a slave or die a free man. "Live free or Die." That's a choice. However, most people - normies in particular - treat choices as "What do I want for dinner?" or "What will I do today?" Most people treat ultimatums as if death is never a choice. Now bear in mind, whether you choose to live to fight another day or die for your own freedom, pride, and honor, one can be described as - for lack of a better term - smarter. That doesn't mean though, that an ultimatum isn't a choice. It's just that you reaaaallly don't want to die and that'd likely be your only available second choice

@Salacious Swanky Cat It can be. Like I said. There's two interpretations to what he is stating. I believe he is saying both

@Deleted User It's hilarious every time they do drop it.

Well, yes. However, think the criticism comes from interpreting that as historical slavery was a choice for the enslaved. Mentality aside.

It’s an intentional misrepresentation then.

Not for the enslaved, but more for the slavers, imo

@Salacious Swanky Cat You're 100% right. That's where the criticism comes from because that's the fight they know they can win public opinion on. It's the easy fight

In the end, who chose to sell off those people to whitey?

Also, yeah, as Steely said, the choice is either continue being enslaved or literally kys

I agree that the current situation is purely mental.

I think the second scenario is the more interesting conversation to have. It requires a deeper look at what people value in certain scenarios. As Reonen said, these people were enslaved before they were sold to a new master. What went through their heads at the time of this and why did they stick it out?

Most of us would like to live to fight another day. Others would rather die with their own honor in tact

Good question. How did they (the first generation slaves) view their situation?

We may never know that.

The closest we can get to it is putting yourself into the scenario. Most people can imagine themselves in that role but it requires a deep-rooted view of honesty and an even greater amount of knowing the culture at the time. I think I'd like to live to fight another day but my mouth would likely get me killed sooner

Knowing me I’d probably try to hit it off with the master’s wife and get killed after that Lel

Sadly enough

lol

Yeah. It’s hard to imagine what that would be like. I don’t really understand pre-colonial African cultures.

I'd think the closest we could get to understanding it from our perspective would be Native American and Aboriginal tribes. Their war and living situations were very similar on a tale of the tape

_I love me some white women_

I joke

But anyway

A diverse array of tribes constantly fighting over small land grabs and trying to survive that one cannibal tribe that messes up everything

Yeah

The only common ground is your mutual weakness in the situation

It’s interesting how this whole dynamic seems to have been ignored

The same sorta thing played out on a grander scale in east Asia

Are you talking about Feudal Japan or something else?

I agree. Everyone was awful in some way back then.

With China/Japan and the unequal treaties etc, except without the slavery

Nah, I mean the intrusion of Western power into these areas

That was China's fault mostly