and as the grid power gets cleaner the Teslas naturally get cleaner energy

whereas gas cars keep burning gas

exactly steph

the more electric we use, the more COAL we burn

and thus we actually emit MORE co2

and economics dictates that the moment we realize we won't have as much oil tommorrow as we did yesterday.....

the price makes it unaffordable leaving no resources to solve the problems

Ya Un. Let’s feel great about making and driving cars that don’t use gas......and power them with other stuff that *Isnt Gas...

Technically

they even want to burn methane

I'm talking entirely about tons of CO2 per kWh of energy

there are a bunch of other factors

and we should absolutely be letting markets find the most efficient solutions

It’s good

remember, oil isn't about cars, trucks and even lights

it's about plastics

and fertilizers

lol

well, 'allowing markets to find the most efficent solutions' in terms of energy requires compartmentalization

we don't have that

how do you mean?

I just can’t wait until I get a car with a nuclear generator in my back seat

I would remove all subsidies for starters

MR FUSION @stephfire

what i mean is that the market works best when 'dollar voting' can do it's job

BUT dollar voting doesn't work when corporations are multinational

because they work outside the domain of the law and can thus externalize their costs at the lowest point in the system

yeah I can get on board with that issue @ManAnimal

a company can claim to encourage a particular process in the first world but then dump nuclear waste in africa

corporations being able to endrun national sovereignty is a big issue

so the incentive isn't nessecarily there to focus on producing new and more efficent but can just as easily be acheive by cutting corners or cutting costs

the best incentive is actual a form of 'ideal subsidy' in which all money collected of say roads is ONLY spent on the construction of highspeed rail lines

regardless of that issue though, subsidies still distort markets

why is that ideal?

hence my point; subsidies distort markets BECAUSE dollar voting doesn't work

that doesn't follow

i just described the idea

all money collected for cars is used to subsidize trains

cars compete with trains

but who decides that that's the ideal?

there is a 1 to 1