Message from @yung
Discord ID: 435974198100492309
you know like, workers control? The whole point of Socialism?
@yung And what do you mean by "control over your work"?
Coordination over how one handles his/her own work
@yung Um what? You mean the instructions on how one handles the stuff they create? That is extremely specific pal.
That’s a part of it. I’m talking about the abolition of private property in favor of common ownership over work. The way you work is entirely dependent on the case of course
@yung The common didn't own everything though, the state ultimately did in the end.
because the common was the state. Even though it wasn’t direct control it was at the very least representative
So the common is another word for the state under your definiton.... I will take note of that.
Well yes, that’s how it is supposed to work. I’m not denying in time this changed drastically
during war time especially
The ansyns would argue that the common are actually the factory workers and unions that participated in creating those goods.
What would you say to that?
And if the ultimate goal of communism is to abolish the state, dosen't that mean you would be abolishing the common?
The state is an apparatus by which the common makes decisions about anything that is of importance to the common
Then why does the state enforce brutal quota's on the common?
The main difference between Marxist Leninists and Anarchists of many varieties is precisely that temporary presence of the state.
of a centralized one at that
What? Anarchists want the state completely destroyed, the marxists just want it abolished eventually.
that’s what i’m saying
What a conveluded way of saying it.
The anarchists were clearly foolish in their belief, as without any state whatsoever, it completely leaves things in.... ANARCHY, but not the anarchy they want.
I think it’s more of the fact that objectively some kind of authority is needed if one is making a radical change as big as abolishing Capitalism
But then again, there are edgy anarchists who just want a lawless world, but I digress.
And their experiments clearly presented institutions very similar to the state, btw.
@yung Which is the state? And what tells you that capitalism won't come back to destroy communism from the inside out? It happened with every communist nation that didn't get destroyed from war.
The fact is that capitalism is forever more subversive than that of socialism, it has been this way forever.
I can’t tell you Capitalism can’t come back. That’s why it helps for Socialism to be international, and initially militaristic for exactly that reason.
But internationalism never works.
It only leads to destruction of those trying to spread it.
so you suggest throwing the towel in like that? Just because there is imperialism?
If you attempt to spread socialism internationally and militaristically, it only ends up destroying socialism, trotsky and his schemes prove that.
Trotsky didn’t do shit tho
and the destruction of the Soviet Union as you know cane much later, when it was no longer Socialist at all.
Imperialism is long dead, it is but the corporations that run rampant now.
well yes it’s economic imperialism
same difference
Imperialism relies on a state being the direct force behind it, the direct force is only the corporations.
*Unless you count china, which just steals oil from african countries
i’m not sure I’ve read any definition of imperialism that requires the state to be the decider
@yung It relies on the country.