@εïз irma εïз i wasnt snubbing you i was just having a convo with a mate and ive looked into things a little more
you raise good points and certainly its less black and white then I first imagined it to be but the decline of the roman empire saw a shrinking of christian influence before christian institutions would then gain a foothold with the institutions post roman empire

france saw that transition relatively early but were earlier overrun by pagans

other parts of europe saw differing rates there with irish christianity developing independantly of the catholic church to a significant degree before being brought back into the fold later and england dropping out before converting in a manner similar to france

my original position, that went into decline period was prolly a hot take but that rather than the hegemonic position it had under the roman empire and later in mid to late medieval period (10th century onward, say) the period of roman decline and absence (5th to 10th century) saw an inconsistant decline in the spread of christianity and certainly a less connected church

again, i dont know where you people are from or what schools your going to etc but im not aware of anyone who's blamed the church for the decline in scholarship in the west in this period

not only was I taught that Christianity was responsible for the dark ages, I have heard it many times from Atheists who think that religion is why we arent in space

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Fuck

@PunishedMuskovy well as i point out the first ones hard to justify. the second one on the surface seems to make sense, religions in general have gatekept areas of study and prevented the dissemination of knowledge so retrospectively its an attractive position but id argue that disregards the context of the times and ignores the positive instances of such gatekeeping

I seriously do not know where you heard that dark ages were because of Pagans

because the dark ages

were the middle ages

our school systems must be very different then because ive never equated the dark ages to the entire medieval period

what do you label the middle ages?

essentially id say the time where Feudalism, Black Death, and Crusades were big things

before the renaissance

where vikangz were doing vikangz shit

and mongols and whatever

right but thats a big chunk of time and theres alot of overlap and areas where one's going on but not others

its like saying the ancient period is when egypt was around

im saying this is how I was taught

I for one think the "dark ages" werent a real thing

people thinking that "oh the church just burned people who thought about science calling it witchcraft and blah blah"

like i was taught that

somehow

while europe was in the dark ages caus religun hurt science

depends how you want to understand the term. there was a period of decline in the prosperity and scholarship in western europe.

the middle east was in the golden age

caus islam gud!

at the time it had some headway over Christianity and the mutazilla sect was massively productive in terms of intellectual output

"The phrase "Dark Age" itself derives from the Latin saeculum obscurum, originally applied by Caesar Baronius in 1602 to a tumultuous period in the 10th and 11th centuries.[5] The concept thus came to characterize the entire Middle Ages as a time of intellectual darkness between the fall of Rome and the Renaissance; this became especially popular during the 18th-century Age of Enlightenment.[3]"

this is basically what I was taught

yet they fail to mention how its because of the BIG BAD KNOWLEDGE HATING CATHOLICS that we are able to read the greeks

irish monks preserved the works of philosophers like Plato and Aristotle

if the catholics were truly BIG BAD KNOWLEDGE HATERS WHO CALLED BEING SMART BEING A WITCH then why wouldnt they burn the works of EVIL PAGANS LIKE PLATO AND PLUTARCH

they also did that to be fair, overall i think the catholic church had a positive impact but the legacy certainly isnt consistent across the board

nor could it have been, i think people are very quick to dismiss the concerns of the church at the time but looking at the reformation period in depth or say why islam didnt continue accepting mutazilla as a mainstream sect shows that there were legitimate concerns with the free spread of information with some parallels to today

it was an age of superstition and it simply wasnt feasible in the economic conditions of the time to provide a quality education to most peasants. that means that if people started thinking sacrificing all their cows would get them something then they might just do that and not have food for winter

alot of the ordeals that are similarly seen as superstitious by the church were understood as bs by the priests but were used to calm people down prepared to kill eachother over some slight that could be figured out with some bullshittery on the side and some inside information thanks to confession

however it also failed to appreciate the impact of the printing press and change to an increasing accuracy and connectivity of thought