Message from @Cyboman
Discord ID: 556694699411243033
the proletariat are apart of the volk
and National Socialism did try to aid the working class
Stalin does not adhere to traditional Marxism, Marxism was international and closer to Trotsky's ideals of permanent revolution than the nationalist, isolationism of Stalin
through its heavy social policy
Right but it did not define its success or failure by the workers as workers, but as the workers as a part of the people. The fact that fascism also seeks to include the middle class and even upper class demonstrates the difference here
people are stupid
revolutions have happened with 1% of 1% of the population
fascism is the uniting of classes rather than the communist dividing of classes.
"the proletariat" or whatever will follow the rules/social norms as set by the rulers
or leaders
whatever title you give them
This is Lenin’s concept of the vanguard. Not sure what your getting at
people are too readily influenced to make decisions for themselves
Lenin had some ok ideas
the idea of a "vanguard class" isn't really new
that a small group of people should watch out for a larger one?
how ancient is that idea?
oligarchy has existed forever
Also, ally, stalins socialism in one state still sought to achieve the internationale and continued the Comintern but sought to achieve a revolution more fully before spreading, not really a significant difference to draw a total distinction
@Friend of Greatest Ally it depends on whether you consider it oligarchy
Stalin post 1941 employed nationalist rhetoric
@Cyboman I’m not saying its new or effective, I’m saying the opposite. It is the thought process though
but he flip flopped on everything, so
@CronoSaturn so you're saying a population, half of whose IQ lies below 100, should decide for itself what to do?
a small group of people deciding for the wider group is oligarchy, so yes it would be if ir is a tribe of elders or something similar
if you define it so broadly then the world has always been lead by oligarchs
I know ying, but he did not seek to break down the classes like marxism but instead made an elitist state with the communist party as the elite
@Cyboman I have no idea how you’ve drawn that from what I’ve said.
That's my point cyber, it always has
yes, I believe it is better that the world is lead by leaders, not by followers
Always was, always will
True democracy has never been tried
"true democracy" shouldn't _ever_ be tried
Also true
the extreme's of democracy were tried and failed on greece
@Friend of Greatest Ally it’s difficult to make concrete statements like that re: Stalin. In terms of the rhetoric he espoused? No, it’s just an expression of the dictatorship of the proletariat. In reality I’d be more inclined to agree, but that’s less then cut and dry
I don’t think any real extreme of democracy was tried in Greece and I’m not sure what failure your referring to
You realise Greece fell to another broadly Hellenistic republic, yeah?
And that many of the Greek states were never democratic in the slightest?
Greece had a full on actual democracy and because the 51% could do whatever the masses voted like idiots and destroyed it