Again not always

Even in theory they are incorrect

Well their first premise is that all men are created equal and Locke thought people were blank slates

So yeah they had a bad start

It's much more than that and saying that their ideas are fine but don't work out in reality is giving them too much credit

Self professed "Thinkers" formulate ideologies. Yet they rarely bother to formulate goals for them.
And what's worse is that they create these ideological equivalents of mind castles and praise their virtues constantly, even though the ideologies in question can rarely survive contact with actual humans and human behaviour.

My view is: if your ideology is demonstrably incompatible with humanity, then your ideology is a waste of time and should be discarded.

If you constantly have to excuse your ideology with the words "If only people would..." then that's a surefire symptom of your ideology being fundamentally flawed.

If only people weren't so greedy, then capitalism could work.

If only people would see the bigger, societal picture rather than their wealth accumulation then maybe capitalism might work.

@Seven Proxies

If only people would have more children. White replacement wouldn't be an issue.

well no it still would ba issue since politicians would just increae the numbers coming into the UK

@Weez Pretty much yes. And to prove my point further, you could actually use the same statements but replace "capitalism" with "communism" as well.

After all, when socialist states like Venezuela fails because the wealthy people take their money and leave before the communist dictator in power decides to simply steal their belongings and money, the socialists and communists all drone one about how "greedy" those wealthy people are, and that their greed is "sabotaging" the socialist project.

You could actually use the same statements but replace "capitalism" or "communism" with basically anything. Point being, it's a stupid point and bad argument.

Ideologies require change in peoples behaviour and thought so saying "if only people would to X" is pretty reasonable, because generally under their ideology they would be doing X.

That makes the ideology a fantasy, because as we all know: people don't conform to your ideology, regardless of what ideology that is.

You will always have specimens who think your ideology is shit. And thus your ideology will fail by default.

"That makes the ideology a fantasy" they all are, until put into practice.

"people don't conform to your ideology, regardless of what ideology that is." Under conditions they can.

Liberalism/libertarianism gets close to a certain degree, in the way that they both recognize the concept of rational self-interest being one of the primary motivations for all human behaviour.

But what they both fail at is realizing is that pursuit of rational self interests will lead to conflicts between people. Conflicts that do not stay civil or peaceful.

"Can" is not the same as "they will".

Under threat of violence, then they will.

Else be shot.

Just because you offer people the opportunity to conform to your ideology, it doesn't mean they will

Sorry, doesn't work either. They might just decide to shoot you first before you can make your threat a reality

Then they can pick between conforming or death.

Disarm them beforehand.. Make it harder for them to fight back.

These are all basic authoritarian things to do.

And we've got a long list of failed authoritarian states

Degrade their ability to fight back, using your supporter base and what power you have, then force them to conform or disappear.

And I've got a long list of working ones.

What's your point?

No you don't

The ones currently operating are hardly "successful".

China?

China is not successful. It's a bloated economy based purely on an export bubble

An economy which is soon to overtake the American one?

They're hurting like hell due to the economic sanctions imposed on them by the U:S

With nearly double the population?

The U.S could kill china with one single trading embargo

And a government with basically supreme control over every aspect they want.

*Right*

Yet they haven't, because they can't.