Message from @OneTrueGod
Discord ID: 624957401262456862
Sharing knowledge is a completely different thing again
Not entirely, there will be mechanisms for it that we know nothing of
Recent research also suggest that behaviour and even memories are inherited https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/ancestors-genetic-memories-passed-on-14-generations/
If you make a flatworm learn a maze, grind it up, feed it to another flatworm it will complete the maze as if learned, they manage to process memory by digestion
so its not out of the question
"This particular study looked at C. elegans nematodes, types of roundworms with very short lifespans. The researchers genetically engineered them to carry a glowing gene, a protein that fluoresced, so they could track it under UV light.
They then placed the worms in a cold environment and watched as the gene glowed, but dimly. Moving them to a warm environment, they saw the gene glow far more brightly. When they were moved back to the cold room, the gene continued to glow, which suggested the “memory” of the warm environment was maintained.
Incredibly, when these worms reproduced, this memory, via this glowing gene, was passed on through an unprecedented 14 generations, no matter whether they received it via eggs or sperm. This means that their offspring would be “aware” of the warm environment even without having experienced it themselves."
That's cool
I don't like cross correlations between race and intelligence
Its too complex a thing
@Seven Proxies
> Unless you've got the genome completely mapped out, you can't say for certain that the differences would only be "some small changes in appearance related DNA". Also, it doesn't make much sense that only appearance would've been affected since there is really only one enviromental factor in prehistoric times leading up to today where appearance might've granted a survival edge, and that would be the relative sunlight exposure (black skin protects better against high sun exposure, white skin allows for more absorption of sunlight in places that have fewer hours of sunlight of the year).
I obviously don't have the human genome mapped out, and of course if I did, I wouldn't have the ability to comprehend it in a meaningful way. But, what I can do is look at how long it took for other features to develop and hypothesise about how long it would take to make significant changes to the brain.
From an evolutionary perspective, all races pretty much faced the same types of hunter/gatherer survival scenarios where they had come down from their trees and began to make tools. There's not much reason for them to have massively changed.
> The fact that we can interbreed "without issue" (disputed claim
Disputed by who? I'm talking strictly from a "does a valid baby get made" perspective, not any social issues you may or may not have.
> doesn't prove anything, since humans could interbreed with far more removed variants of hominids, like the fact that white people are a result of hybridization between homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis, while black people have no genetic trace markers from homo neanderthalensis at all.
They were still quite close.
> Neanderthals where further genetically removed from homo sapiens, in pre historic times than white people are today from black people, yet they could still interbreed.
It's because they weren't massively different. If you can still breed with another race/species, then your genetic markers haven't changed too much.
@OneTrueGod Of course it is. But it has to be put in there if someone argues that the only differences between races are "appearance based".
Now while the exact cause of IQ differences is yet to be pinned down, the fact that differences do exist also makes it impossible to claim that the only differences between races are appearance related.
Well, as a baseline, I think the west produced more intelligence, just by comparing technological progress by orders of magnitude
but that could be due to location and resources
@OneTrueGod You quoted ILFS... But anyway, it just sounds like a hormone is affecting growth, in the same way oestrogen does in human babies: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/356/6335/320
@B[] I'm not regering to any social issues either. I'm refering to the possibility of various genetic diseases and syndromes that might result from interbreeding between races that do not occur in monoracial breeding.
Don't start strawmanning me, because I haven't done it to you.
As to the other argument, you're kind of moving the goalposts. The capability of interbreeding does not prove "sameness" or dismiss racial differences as irrelevant.
sargon ever come here?
I think differences in IQ are mostly cultural, it's well known that a) some of these Countries have shitty education and b) different races living within western nations tend to be raised differently within their communities.
@B[] No I quote the study which IFLS brings up. It's not IFLS making the claims, it's the people behind the study.
If you've got tangible arguments against the study, then I'll hear them. But I won't accept any shooting of messengers based simply on who they are.
@B[] IQ is not about education. IQ is a measurement of logical reasoning, which even completely educated people are capable of.
@Seven Proxies
> I'm not regering to any social issues either. I'm refering to the possibility of various genetic diseases and syndromes that might result from interbreeding between races that do not occur in monoracial breeding.
Again, cite them and I'll concede.
> Don't start strawmanning me, because I haven't done it to you.
I didn't? I said "may or may not", i.e., I don't know your position.
Logical reasoning, wish that were more common
@OneTrueGod
> sargon ever come here?
If I were him, I would spend as little time here as possible
I figured he made this
@B[] The elephant in the room here is where you believe that culture comes from. You seem to (I stress SEEM) to treat culture as something entirely separate from biology. As if it is something that just springs from the ether, rather than being a phenomenon produced by the thought process of living human brains.
I argue that culture is downriver of biology, not the other way around
Without the physical brain, there can be no culture etc.
hang on, how did I find this discord >.>
Could of sworn I got here from a channel link
@Seven Proxies
> If you've got tangible arguments against the study, then I'll hear them. But I won't accept any shooting of messengers based simply on who they are.
My point is, ILFS is a poor source, exactly for this reason. The worms don't appear to be inheriting memories by eating each other. It'll just be a chemical difference. If you ate another person who had high levels of oestrogen in their blood, it would probably flip whether you had a boy or girl in the early stages of pregnancy.
@B[] The cannibalism argument was not mine though. I was refering to the inherited memories of hot and cold enviroments and the behviours exhibited in the worms when exposed to them.
@Seven Proxies
> The elephant in the room here is where you believe that culture comes from. You seem to (I stress SEEM) to treat culture as something entirely separate from biology. As if it is something that just springs from the ether, rather than being a phenomenon produced by the thought process of living human brains.
When it comes to modern homo sapiens, I believe culture is entirely separate. Culture comes from your community, culture is inherited socially. Culture literally means "social behaviour" [1]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture
@Seven Proxies
> The cannibalism argument was not mine though. I was refering to the inherited memories of hot and cold enviroments and the behviours exhibited in the worms when exposed to them.
It really doesn't matter, behaviours aren't stored in DNA. They're just an emergent property and even then they just seed your behavioural tendencies.
@B[] And you don't admit that biology influence social behaviour?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy
@B[] Yes it does matter, because this research suggest that behaviours might just be stored in DNA. We don't know exactly what DNA governs. The genome is not fully mapped out.
@Seven Proxies Lobotomy doesn't come from your DNA...
@B[] No but it proves that altering your biology will also alter your social behaviour.
@B[] And DNA most definitely play a part in governing the formation of neural connections in the brain, like controlling the number of neural connections made in the prefrontal cortex and other parts of the brain anatomy.
WHich is why some people are born as geniuses, while others are born hopelessly dumb, even when brought up in virtually identical cultural and nurtritional enviroments.
@Seven Proxies > Yes it does matter, because this research suggest that behaviours might just be stored in DNA. We don't know exactly what DNA governs. The genome is not fully mapped out.
No, you're extrapolating. Worms mostly are governed by a reactive behaviour, meaning that very little intelligence is involved. You're trying to compare this to human behaviours - it just doesn't match up. At least find the same thing done with mice.