why take said risk under communism?

we haven't gotten to that level yet

again, you want to start with something of value that already exists; home depot

but someone MADEEE that value

@ManAnimal - The best people to run any given institution are not necessarily the people who are currently in charge. In theory, socialism can fix that. In practice, we both know how fucking awful the government is. The government can't run shit, and anything they touch tends to turn to fucking garbage.

Anyone advocating communism is ill informed or actively malevolent

The difference between Marx and hitler, is like comparing isis to police

how does one 'make that value' under your system?

'the best' by what metric?

corect the gov has too many requirements to run efficenty

by your system willplace all businesses in the same boat

@randomNPCno3 - I'm arguing that the government is fucking incompetent, and that for socialism to work you need a government that goes well beyond being "not shit." They need to be fucking exceptional for socialism to work, and we both know that however "possible" that might be in theory, in practice good, functional, not corrupt governments are fucking gemstones in a sea of shit.

no chain of command

no chain of accountability

@Arthur Grayborn citation of competent socialism plox

why is gov 'incompetent'?

Surely one leader knew how to exterminate and sterilize, while feeding their armies, right

@Reprehensibletrash - They're all small scale, super small scale, because the entire bureaucracy has to be hyper-competent. The only successful examples I can give you are worker owned coops, and even those are fairly uncommon.

it isn't govs job to be competent. it is to keep watch of the competent

Will the real @Lucienne d'Anwyl please stand up

@Arthur Grayborn they don't need just a good government, it requires an ideologically pristine environment to even have a chance, and those just don't exist

Yes, I live in Portland. I can tell you how absolutely worthless and unsustainable coops are

Fucking lol

it requres homogeninity of thought

and beleif

no wrong think

@randomNPCno3 - Exactly.

People are bitching about my point of socialism being better in theory, and they don't get that theory doesn't fucking matter worth a god damned thing, if pragmatic limitations render the entire argument a moot point.

the problem isn't our understanding it is your data

Socialism is better in theory, but that doesn't mean shit.

Pragmatic limitations render capitalism superior to socialism in all real life situations to date, unless you look at a couple of exceptional coops or communes that usually flame out after a short period because the competence was short lived.

They're more common in Portland Oregon, than anywhere else I can possibly think of. Yet they're trash. Hippies smoking weed and living off the state. 100% of them

if you can't present at least a theoetical design showing how the system could work, how could it work IRL?

side note i just got a book that the author killed himself after publishing

should be spicy

They have real jobs, yes

@Arthur Grayborn I think @Reprehensibletrash has caused some confusion, he's muddying the waters because everyone to the left of him is a commie. I thought I was agreeing with you

@ManAnimal - I already have. Just shift corporate ownership to the state.

State changes all business decisions to account for external factors.

But the actual cost of paying for the rest of the "workers" inflates pretty quickly

so just tear apart and reallocate value someone else made

@randomNPCno3 no, you moron. I said you keep saying it works in theory

Which is hilarious

again, not addressing how to CREATE value