at a certain point it becomes a valid critque against it and not just something you can wave your hand and say "well we promise we will do it right this time. Trust us ;))))

what you're getting at isn't true though

eastern bloc had higher levels of food security on average than capitalist countries at a similar level of development and developed at roughly the same rate

"totalitarianism" is probably an apt descriptor for marxism-leninism though

not so much socialism as a whole

but marxism-leninism has been the historically dominant socialist ideology

Wait wait "well we promise we will do it right this time"
So no famines caused under capitalist systems?
And then I just come back to wondering when does the Liberal state begin?
Before or after the slave trade?
Before or after the outlawing of homosexuality?
Before or after segregation and miscegenation laws?
And if the Liberal state isn't actually about individual liberty and freedom then I'm not sure why I should want it exactly.
Or is the argument that wasn't real Liberalism, real Liberalism hasn't been tried.

Death in june

okay first

outright calling in BS

First eastern germany ( for example ) started around same point as west germany after ww2

by 1990 eastern germany

no it didn't

which was by far the most productive of the bloc countries

it started out with less than half of west germany's gdp per capita

was 30 years behind the west

it grew a lot faster than the west and the gap was closing over time

once again

you are lying death

the rate at which the gap has been closing slowed down since eastern germany was incorporated into the modern german state

eastern germany due to war with soviets and allied bombing

i'm not

was actually ahead of west germany

Ritschl, A.; Vonyo, T. (17 April 2014). "The roots of economic failure: what explains East Germany's falling behind between 1945 and 1950?". European Review of Economic History. 18 (2): 166–184. doi:10.1093/ereh/heu004.

so once again

you lied

from 1950-1989 east germany's gdp per capita grew by 525% whereas west germany's grew by 334%

Source ?

give me a sec

East germany was almost third world by 1990

germany has spent trillions

and to this day east germany is still comparatively backwards

and despite this spending east germany has been closing the gap more slowly than they were as an independent marxist-leninist state

dude

this is getting tiresome

zero sources

consistent lying

you can draw a line across europe of old soviet states

as to this day you can see economic weakness and backwardness caused by socialism

East germany had crumbling infrastructure and 1970s tier factories still producing vacuum tubes

this has the raw gdp http://www.memo.uni-bremen.de/docs/m3309.pdf