Message from @Jeremy

Discord ID: 621683017102000129


2019-09-12 12:21:23 UTC  

That's why markets must exist.

2019-09-12 12:21:49 UTC  

Until you're able to eliminate scarcity of both labor and resources, you will always run into this issue.

2019-09-12 12:21:50 UTC  

@Jeremy How about the ability of a system to self-impose and self-organize its premised economical spheres?

2019-09-12 12:22:04 UTC  

Why should regulation be imposed on the OUTSIDE?

2019-09-12 12:22:28 UTC  

That's exactly what Capitalism is.

2019-09-12 12:22:40 UTC  

It is not an outside imposition.

2019-09-12 12:22:54 UTC  

What would happen if there is a certain obvious regulation framework imposed in the constitution like do not cut down all forests and do not poison people

2019-09-12 12:23:24 UTC  

but otherwise industry specific regulations are created by professional organizations themselves?

2019-09-12 12:23:42 UTC  

Largely at the municipal level more than anything.

2019-09-12 12:23:51 UTC  

Like the engineers writing the regulations for machines and equipment.

2019-09-12 12:23:59 UTC  

Have you ever read through municodes in the U.S.?

2019-09-12 12:24:20 UTC  

The architects writing construction regulations for buildings and so on.

2019-09-12 12:24:24 UTC  

It secures monopolies.

2019-09-12 12:24:46 UTC  

Yes, that is already the case.

2019-09-12 12:24:51 UTC  

I think each guild has its own abilities to regulate itself and only major cases require outside intervention.

2019-09-12 12:25:23 UTC  

You're missing the component of self-interest on part of these trade unions and organizations you speak of.

2019-09-12 12:25:28 UTC  

Just cut outside regulation under the bare minimum and inbuild competition into an organization and you have it.

2019-09-12 12:25:48 UTC  

How to create a self-sustaining economy SEPARATE from the government.

2019-09-12 12:25:50 UTC  

Their self-interest causes them to pursue regulatory efforts that create inefficient and non-competitive markets.

2019-09-12 12:26:20 UTC  

Why should self-interest be SOCIALIZED through unions or corporations.

2019-09-12 12:26:21 UTC  

Pursue minarchism.

2019-09-12 12:26:49 UTC  

I don't think it should.

2019-09-12 12:26:53 UTC  

Why don't we INBUID it through systems of hierarchy where the most competent rises due to his skills?

2019-09-12 12:27:01 UTC  

That subverts the function of free markets, which you appear to desire.

2019-09-12 12:27:12 UTC  

what's a free market

2019-09-12 12:27:45 UTC  

Weird how free markets don't exist anywhere in the world.

2019-09-12 12:28:14 UTC  

Not an absolutely free market, no.

2019-09-12 12:28:16 UTC  

Instead of having unions or the like have organizations tasked with a particular activity that could be created or dissolved by local government, other producers or anyone else who can DIRECTLY benefit from the workings of the organizations.

2019-09-12 12:29:07 UTC  

To have a free market, you require the ability to engage in commerce, within a particular markets, absent the intervention of a third party.

2019-09-12 12:29:27 UTC  

Then the one who creates the organizations can also create the conditions where 2 or more groups will be competing against each other to devise the best structure and rules for it possible.

2019-09-12 12:29:33 UTC  

You realize how much legal innovation you'd have to do to reach sustainable free markets? We never got to that point before we gave up and started regulating everyone because it was the easy solution.

2019-09-12 12:29:43 UTC  

We don't get rid of competition, just build it in!

2019-09-12 12:30:00 UTC  

by that standard a free market can't exist within a sovereign polity

2019-09-12 12:30:10 UTC  

He gets it.

2019-09-12 12:30:21 UTC  

A true free market needs to be stateless.

2019-09-12 12:30:39 UTC  

Just as unobtainable as "communism".

2019-09-12 12:30:45 UTC  

@Jeremy Why do you think a market is the only, and therefore the best solution?

2019-09-12 12:31:08 UTC  

Just what, exactly, do you believe a market is?

2019-09-12 12:31:12 UTC  

No a true free market requires a state to extract force from the realm of trade

2019-09-12 12:31:14 UTC  

it seems like a weird concept

2019-09-12 12:32:08 UTC  

An INSTITUTION, not a place or a building, where people can trade one kind of goods or services for another.