man in its natural state may arm itself, speak freely, and many other things. and that leads directly to the philosophical basis for bodily autonomy

In fact, I’d say it’s actually rather natural that these freedoms are taken

That’s why they needed to make the document bruh

man in its natural state, will have a whole and intact body, until such a time as an outside force acts upon it or it acts upon itself to change that.

Men are apart of nature themselves

Sooo...

How is your freedom being taken by another human being, not something that happens in nature by nature. Naturally

nature, and natrual state are not the same thing

Especially if we see it happen all throughout history and etc.

Man in its natural state wars, kills. Takes captives etc.

This is why they mention god.

It has to be not only something argued that the truth should be self evident

But that something beyond anything on this planet. Guarantees this

The seal to the deal you could say

natural state is a philosophical framework used to idealize the description of a person unaffected by any outside force, including other people or the need orresources.

Well I think this philosophical framework has some issues with it. If this natural state doesn’t seem to really exist.

its not supposed to exist

Oh believing in something that doesn’t exist eh

Sounds kinda like idk maybe a god or deity

Funny how that works

https://youtu.be/JarDTCfDfZo

you... do not seem to be understanding.

http://chng.it/pDvQjXXNPN

I just have my own thoughts on this framework really

The point of the natural state is to outline what a person has before anything outside of it starts to cut away at those things. and to protect them.

I don’t see how that discredits what I’ve been saying though.

it requires and in fact actively excludes all other humans. anf forces. so all you are looking at is the human itself

How it makes the points not poignant. Or not relevant to the discussion

what does a human in a vacuum have, and what are they able to do. those things must be held sacred and never interfered upon. it is only when outside forces are introduced that the state must then begin to act.

Starve and die

That happens in a vacuum too

you are not geeing the idea of "no external force"

Idk. This all seems a rather new...esoteric view of a human that doesn’t exist

Natural state doesn't include how humans interact with each other naturally, just what a human singular is. They have a body and a voice and an instinct for self defense and survival

its not about a human that exists. its a thought experiment from which all rights are derived from in western thought.

How is hunger an “external force”

Right and it’s also paired with god. Church and state are separated yes but church is still meant to be an important factor to this equation

you can call it "man in eden" if you wish

I mean it says it in the document

the same ideas come out of it

It’s like yo btw god likes us having guns and shiz so deal with it