@UnScottable As Eric Striker said a year ago or so, "we're currently in the death throws of Liberalism" (referring to both Progressivism and Conservatism, as they both derive from Liberalism)

ie promoting the further commodification of human relations through the veneer of concepts like "liberty" and "equality"

libertarian ideals can fit better into a homogenous society. but when you get a place like the US... which is so culturally diverse and being incentivized by market forces to go further in that direction... well order cannot be maintained if liberal values are the priority.

i'm quite skeptical of that

ethnic diversity probably doesn't help, i mean in general it's a burden to any system, but liberalism has had quite devastating effects on homogeneous countries like japan and south korea

well we dont know what our society would be like if the universities had been stopped long ago from spreading this nonsense.. if hollywood had been restrained and so on. If the 1965 immigration act was never passed and our country was still 95% white

granted that's not necessarily the same thing as "libertarianism" i guess

right

and i dont mean libertarianism outright

just that... certain libertarian ideas fit better into a homogenous society... certain ones... but in a culturally diverse society... well none of them can fit into that system and work long term

@UnScottable I think Libertarian ideas, anything derived from Liberalism, ultimately is destined to end up where we are today. Its just what happens because others will take advantage of its gaping loopholes and exploit it against us. The kinds of system we were talking about previously that could replace the current order should not be some temporary bandaid to "fix it" then move on to another system, as soon as we move away from it we're back on track to the same destiny as before. Thats my take anyway.

I agree with you in so far as fitting those ideas into our current society

the libertarian ideas. to be specific

gib examples

of a libertarian idea?

of the type of situation you're referring to exactly

i think one reason why small government conservative liberalism is bad is because the "small government" ideal was predicated on a completely different set of circumstances

like someone like thomas jefferson was for a "small government" yes

basically im positing that something like legalizing marijuana... in our current multicultural society. Would not be desirable. Even though I myself use marijuana.. i dont think it should be legal in our current society. however... if our society was more homogenous then itd fit in better.

and the united states had that in the 18th century

but jefferson was also an outright anti-capitalist

he opposed generalized wage labor

thats just a quick example i could come up with on the fly i guess

might be a shit example

his small government beliefs were built on a foundation of a society made up of independent laborers

and that is what the united states was until the latter part of the 19th century

@UnScottable Oh, sure, personally I wouldn't want it legalized because its bad for our people but people who openly advocate for 3rd Pos like CT for example say they would have weed legalized but heavily restricted, doesn't see it as contradictory to his Fascistic world view

hm interesting

I wouldn't say that its inherently Libertarian

see i dnt want it legalized at all

personally... even though i use it a lot

i dont want to see it commodified and marketed.

i do kinda lean libertarian in the sense that i'm generally averse to criminalizing things that don't directly harm other people

right DiJ... unfortunately our current society.. doesnt need unlimited access to marijuana lol

though that is different from believing that cultural institutions should be normalizing or glorifying these things

"Harm" can be subjective though

and obviously that's not an absolute position

im conflicted in a lot of ways with religion because of things like this

like before i did a bunch of psychedelics. i was a devout atheist

you couldnt tell me anything

if the distribution of marijuana remains illegal i would still be inclined to think that consumption shouldn't be