At least someone would be left standing

I know it is

That’s the sad part

Yeah @Snake

I don’t want Russia to die

It’s the last thing I want

The sad part is that when you f*cked up America inadvertently you f*cked up the rest of the world, too.

Cause you made everyone who sympathized with you cry.

Then you took away the little hope people in far worse places than you were in had that things can change, that things can be better, that there are solutions for their problems, that some people somewhere out there know the way.

Can you see my point?

Now all we have left are Islam or degeneracy.

Not much of a choice, is it?

We fuck up because we can *afford to*.

Well, then face the same choice as us all-islam or degeneracy, not much of a choice, huh?

No. OK when I was going on about demographics. The only place in the developed world without shit demography? The US. Grab any edgy atheist on this server and they will tell you we're more religious than any industrialized nation too. On several factors we are a freakishly odd country. But the way we do things lets us get away with shit other places can't.

No, it's not the US.

Actually it's Hungary.

Oh I thought you were still on the Yankee thing.....

You can't beat the Mag'yar at making babies. They will be the last ones to ever give up in Europe.

Well, I'm @Jym but I just don't want to embarass myself any more.

The discussion got too serious.

And too sad, too.

A 'good demography' is not just making babies. This might be a wall O' text but here goes...

I will wait.

Ok when you are young you spend money. Because you don't have anything yet so you go into debt. Car loans mortgages etc etc etc. You make less too because you don't have any skills yet. So young people generate consumption but also debt.

Middle aged people have more experience they earn more but they also save more. Which means they invest more (this is more true in the US most countries the majority of finance comes from banks. Most US finance is in the markets).

Then you retire and you have to like off of savings. Which means you want safe low-yield investments. Like T-Bills and CDs and the sort of thing that provides the equity to loan to the young people creating all that consumption lead growth.

So "lots of babies" if you don't have the demographics to supply their need for credit and goods is not helpful.

I think with our current levels of automation and advanced economy we can allow for it.

I mean any government centered on the wellbeing of its young will know better than let them sink into debt and not have babies.

Or get their brains f*cked up by communist ideas.

What the Mag'yars are essentially doing right now is exactly socialism in the government and markets in the economy.

I mean they let the Western style market economy replace communist central planning while simultaneously keep some communist era ideas about the central role of the family and social benefits for mothers with many children.

Debt is just selling and buying time. If you want a 50,000 car you can save 100 a week for 10 years *or* take out a car loan.

Well, I don't think they have any clear idea what they are heading into yet and I will agree it is still a work in progress but this is how they are actually managing to pull themselves out of the degeneracy trap of the Western civilization. And a strong sense of nationalism, too.

@Jym What they are doing is that these loans are actually paid by the old by the government redistribution of taxes.

In essence the state subsides the young when they have more children, so they are motivated to do so.

Oh we're horrendously nationalist it just does not show because we rarely think about other nations. The reason Americans hate 'coastal elites' is because they do not agree with the general premise that this is the greatest nation to ever exist. But hear me out on this. We also have the old pay for the desires of the young. That older stable investing demographic provides the capital that gets the young family their first mortgage and car loan and etc. The *interest* is partially paid back to the old to fund their retirement.

Well, than I can say that the Hungarian system is some kind of a "nationalized" form of this.

The government is the middle man, not the banks and this is why they want to raise teh taxes there all the time.

There are just way too many programs to fund-the social care for the old, the stimuluses for the young, defense, rising costs of living due to the EU economy doing not so well lately and the desire of the population to reach Western living standards and so on.

It's actually starting to get a little bit of a mess out there as far as I know but I'm damn sure one of the last things they will cut will be stimulus package for child care.

Sure. I guess, getting back to my point, the *way* we do the same thing means we can do things that would be disastrous for other nations. Like the banking crisis. We solved it with a really stupid idea where we just printed money and fed it to the banks. But most of our finance is not in the banks so it could not screw up half the economy. Europe tried the same trick but they do not do things like we do so they are still in a sovereign debt crisis many places.