Message from @styles
Discord ID: 364209746087116811
lets see it
Welfare isn't a means of production
Also that's public ownership, which is very loosely even socialist
It was a proposed system that expressed ownership over welfare, and was resisted by the employer class of Sweden.
You see, in the Swedish welfare state, the working-class had a much more equal distribution of wealth and had benefits, but this failed to address the underlying problem of ownership and in this specific case *who was still accumulating the most capital?*
Despite the working-class creating that through their labor.
but that goes under the idea of putting in place a full 100% socialistic society
where everything is equally owned by everyone
but we all know that doesnt work (unless in a utopian society)
Everything, no. The economic decisions, yes.
What do you mean it doesn't work?
As we can see through this swedish case, the biggest hurdle against it working was actually the resistance from the capitalists.
Resistance from capital in general, really.
because 1: it is a primary human instinct to put themselves above everything else
and 2: most of them are smart enough to get in such economic power in the first place they know it wouldnt work
you cant just 'equally' give the wealth of the economy to everyone
I disagree. Read the article, it's actually very interesting.
there is too much exploitation involved
You realize for most of human history, wages didn't exist?
The point isn't to "give" it to them, it's to make a system where that wealth can be distributed on the society's own terms, or even where wealth is not a primary factor in many life decisions.
Like I said
Ownership
Communism is basically like mutual aid societies
But instead the input is the work provided by everyone, and the output is what is derived from their work
so what happens if one person doesnt work
and another person sees that person not working, getting free benefits, and then everyone stops working?
You'd be pretty fucking bored out of your mind not doing anything with your life
This depends. Is the society automated?
You can't automate everything
the society is a normal society with the concept of communism applied
if it is automation then it isnt communism because the people arent in control
So basically the level of automation we have now?
'a machine' is
yea that would work the same
our current state of automation still requires people to work
the machines just wont handle things correctly if they dont have ppl working
Wrong. Automation would still be communist. It just wouldn't be people in the factories.
I don't mean automation as in "machines make some of the decisions"
I mean automated production.