The utopian vs. scientific debate ended more than a century ago

Yeah, Proudhon was a bit of a utopian.

But we can analyze what has already happened

Definitely.

A lot can be learned from the socialist experiments of the past.

I will take a pass on imaginary utopias if I can find system a that will improve the material conditions of my fellow man now or in the near future

Literally every revolution became a bureaucracy and reverted back to capitalism

Hmm, I wonder who predicted that 🤔

yeah I am definitely for a state because the conflict that arises when leftist group rises to power

Sounds pretty Trotty.

@olev

I am a trot

Gross

inb4 trotsky worked with nazis

oh shit time to hate each other and never be friends

lol

I'm actually a former Trot. I was an Orthodox Trot.. the worst kind.. lol!

How is orthodox trot the worst kind

I am ill informed about MLism and trotskyism let me hear both or your dudes ideas

I would like to know

The main difference is permanent revolution vs. socialism in one country

Not many people like Trots to begin with, including other Trots, haha. OrthoTrots tend to get the most heat.

yo why is the left always seem to be punching left and be so cannibalistic?

like what went down in the spanish civil war not saying the "republicans" were going to win but the infighting kind of handed victory to Franco

@quiscalus Some of what Trotsky theorized was decent, but a lot of it was just idealistic nonsense that had no basis in reality.

Anarchists hate Trots because of ukraine and Kronstadt

Also how they view the USSR

I will admit that he was a brilliant writer though.

Goddamnit myi nternet is shit

How is it idealistic

yeah I heard about the black army and them being crushed by him and the russsian state

But definitely a sub-par theoretician. Certainly not anywhere near as good as say Mao, for example.

how do I type lol

like at the city I live in some 19yo SJW anarchists wanted a professor removed for being racist because he thought your shouldn't judge people on the basis of race

Idk anarchists are spergs

like they took over the school but because they are 19yos with no real weapons or combat experience they eventually gave up

@olev A lot of it is just the result of fallacious reasoning and mental masturbation not borne out of a factual analysis of material conditions.

You're just rewording what you said before, and not explaning how

"Permanent Revolution" is an absolute joke to say the least.

I am far from well versed on leftism but isn't it mainly making sure workers and people have self determination and increasing their material conditions?

Well permanent revolution is sort of 2 things