Message from @olev

Discord ID: 388463082969497600


2017-12-07 22:48:50 UTC  

```Social democracy has traditionally stood for a ‘mixed economy’, for the mitigation
of the inequalities of capitalism by means of a system of progressive
taxation and social benefits, for parliamentary democracy and civil liberties.
At their most successful, social democratic parties have certainly succeeded in
improving the conditions of the working classes, compared to a situation of unregulated
capitalism; in Britain the National Health Service remains the most
enduring monument to this sort of amelioration. Nonetheless very substantial
problems remain.```

2017-12-07 22:49:12 UTC  

```First, capitalist economic mechanisms tend to generate gross inequalities of
income, wealth and ‘life-chances’ (as discussed in chapter 1), and social democracy
has had little real impact on these inequalities, which have indeed worsened
over the last decade or so. Only a radical change in the mode of distribution
of personal incomes, such as that advocated in chapter 2, offers a real prospect
of eliminating gross inequality. Secondly, the ‘mixed economy’ is problematic
in two important ways. In the mixed economies that have existed to date, the
socialist elements have remained subordinated to the capitalist elements. That
is, the commodity and wage forms have remained the primary forms of organisation
of production and payment of labour respectively. ‘Socialist’ activities
have had to be financed out of tax revenue extracted from the capitalist sector,
which has meant that the opportunities for expansion of ‘welfare’ measures and
the ‘free’ distribution of basic services have been dependent on the health of
the capitalist sector and the strength of the tax base. Only when the capitalist
sector has been growing strongly have social democratic governments been able
to ‘deliver the goods’. In this way, the capacity of social democratic governments
to reshape the class structure of society has been inherently self-limiting:
attempts at radical redistribution always threaten to destroy the engine of capitalist
wealth-creation on which those governments ultimately depend.```

2017-12-07 22:49:19 UTC  

```Linked to the foregoing, if the mixed economy is a mixture of capitalist and
socialist elements, there has been little serious attempt to define the principles of
operation of the socialist sector. This leaves the whole idea of a mixed economy
vulnerable, in a world context where the planned economies are disintegrating.
Advocates of the unfettered market can argue, in effect, that if planning is
being rejected in its heartlands, why should it be tolerated in the West, even as
a subordinate element of the system? Insofar as Western social democrats have
no coherent idea of what planned and non-commodity forms of production are
ultimately about, and how their efficiency can be assessed, they are ill-placed to
defend their favoured ‘mixture’, except in a rather vague and moralising manner.
From this point of view, our attempt to define the principles of a socialist
economic mechanism might be seen as providing the socialist backbone which
is conspicuously lacking in contemporary social democracy: even those who
disagree with our advocacy of a fully planned economy might find some value
in our arguments, insofar as they illuminate the undeveloped component in the
mixed economy’s ‘mix’.```

2017-12-07 22:49:34 UTC  

-Paul Cockshott, *Towards a New Socialism*

2017-12-07 22:49:37 UTC  
2017-12-07 22:50:20 UTC  

@Deleted User Just don't fall for the stalin/dprk/assad apology please

2017-12-07 22:51:09 UTC  

Ait!

2017-12-07 22:51:11 UTC  

stalin did nothing wrong tho

2017-12-07 22:51:27 UTC  

read Unruhe

2017-12-07 22:51:30 UTC  

I def wont. I went tankie for a bit last year

2017-12-07 22:51:31 UTC  

LOL

2017-12-07 22:51:38 UTC  

Why did you stop

2017-12-07 22:52:04 UTC  

@Deleted User There's plenty of reading material on why social democracy falls in comparison to marxism

2017-12-07 22:52:18 UTC  

dedleg marxism leninism is the only socialism that proved to work and its the only that can lead us to victory

2017-12-07 22:52:21 UTC  

I was just larping and had a fetish for soviet aesthetic

2017-12-07 22:52:42 UTC  

I think the soviet aesthetic is cool aswell but like

2017-12-07 22:52:48 UTC  

it's gay

2017-12-07 22:52:52 UTC  

you can not like stalin and wathever the point of marxism leninism isnt to praise stalin and assad

2017-12-07 22:52:52 UTC  

Oh it's very nice

2017-12-07 22:53:22 UTC  

@Deleted User Good luck finding any revolutionary uprising that isn't "Stalinist".

2017-12-07 22:53:36 UTC  

Ah and this faggot comes back

2017-12-07 22:54:08 UTC  

```If you disagree with Stalin, you disagree with Lenin. If you disagree with Lenin, you disagree with Marx. If you don't like stalinism you're not a marxist```

2017-12-07 22:54:19 UTC  

@olev Nice insult you xenophobic, butthurt little bitch. Go read your anachronistic horseshit and leave the theorizing to actual Marxists. Menshevik cunt.

2017-12-07 22:54:20 UTC  

im just goin nazbol

2017-12-07 22:54:24 UTC  

Damn

2017-12-07 22:54:28 UTC  

You really hurt my feelings

2017-12-07 22:54:30 UTC  

😭

2017-12-07 22:54:39 UTC  

olev is a fucking trot they dont have feelings

2017-12-07 22:54:41 UTC  

Don't you mean homophobic

2017-12-07 22:54:44 UTC  

not xenophobic

2017-12-07 22:54:52 UTC  

you are both faggot

2017-12-07 22:54:52 UTC  

You're xenophobic.

2017-12-07 22:54:56 UTC  

To who

2017-12-07 22:55:01 UTC  

to me

2017-12-07 22:55:08 UTC  

I don't even know where he's from

2017-12-07 22:55:13 UTC  

And you're homophobic.

2017-12-07 22:55:31 UTC  

Coolio

2017-12-07 22:55:37 UTC  

Im from MANSA so I should know

2017-12-07 22:55:38 UTC  

I'm not going to argue with a redditfag about muh feelins

2017-12-07 22:55:38 UTC  

I've seen some of the disparaging shit you've seen to various minority groups. I've also seen you trash Lenin.

2017-12-07 22:55:48 UTC  

Where