Well in that case their is a lack of pleasure and likely some pain involved meaning that I would not want that to happen.

it is not a coherent concept

When you don't simplify it to much I think it is perfectly coherent.

Some of it seems a little paradoxical at first but I personally think that for the most part it is pretty coherent.

you started this by saying pain should be abolished

To the most optimal extent possible. Maximizing pleasure and minimizing pain must be done at the optimal balanced level.

It is possible I was being a little sloppy with my language earlier but I do think that pain should be abolished to the greatest extent possible to the point that it starts to damage peoples capacity to feel proper pleasure.

the optimal level of pain is right at your limit

there's a technical term for it that escapes me right now

the limit being the treshold between manageable and unmanageable

@BigJim why?

Excess of pleasure can be harmful

Equally like lack of pain

If an excess of pleasure causes a large amount of pain then I oppose it as it is creating pain.

If a small amount of pain maximizes pleasure in the long term then I may support it.

<:thinkingsuicide:793674864619683840>

You no like?

What basic level goal informs your political views then?

hes a utilitarian

the expansion of my collective's material conditions

Who is a utlilitarian

you

you literally defined utilitarianism here lol

and that is not the basis of liberalism

Cool

yeah you could use utilitarianism to justify brutal tyranny if you wanted

Depending on your views on how tyranny impacts the common good of people.

I would argue it is destructive to peoples well being.

ingolfr what is your basic level goal that informs your political views?

at the most basic level it is the same as what aqua said

protection of the ingroup versus the outgroup/s

Yes because you are all tribalists

expansion of the ingroup

I care for both in groups and out groups.

no you don't

Why care for just one when you can care for both?

Oh yes I do

well for one because different groups have different material interests

@BigJim so you support basic human biology, good on you

I might be able to vc with you in an hour

I might be able to voice chat then