and as individuals we must learn to master ourselves

In what way?

Single mother homes
Drug epidemic
hookup Culture
Porn Addiction
Secular Humanism

All things that come from man believing they are what morals are derived from

When we come from the perspective that morals are transcendental

it removes a lot of these problem

The Family structure is sacred

It is what the west is built on

The youth was encompassed with modernity

"History had ended" so to speak

Just because they could not see what turned the light did not remove the structure

Claiming that reality is not real will not stop reality from slapping you in the face

A rejection of truth is the first step down the road to the collapse

which is why i quoted someone i disagree with on alot

Ann Rand

The man who refuses to judge, who neither agrees nor disagrees, who declares that there are no absolutes and believes that he escapes responsibility, is the man responsible for all the blood that is now spilled in the world. Reality is an absolute, existence is an absolute, a speck of dust is an absolute and so is a human life. Whether you live or die is an absolute. Whether you have a piece of bread or not, is an absolute. Whether you eat your bread or see it vanish into a looter's stomach, is an absolute.

There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil. The man who is wrong still retains some respect for truth, if only by accepting the responsibility of choice. But the man in the middle is the knave who blanks out the truth in order to pretend that no choice or values exist, who is willing to sit out the course of any battle, willing to cash in on the blood of the innocent or to crawl on his belly to the guilty, who dispenses justice by condemning both the robber and the robbed to jail, who solves conflicts by ordering the thinker and the fool to meet each other halfway. In any compromise between food and poison, it is only death that can win. In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit. In that transfusion of blood which drains the good to feed the evil, the compromise is the transmitting rubber tube.”

^^^^^

Even for an atheist

Not knowing does not stop reality

Eating poison because you did not know it was poison will still kill you

Good shit Paul

I hope that is not what you took out of what i was trying to say

I'd say there is a problem with claiming morals are absolute, it goes against that quote at least. If they were transcendent and permanent they'd not be bent in every direction, according to the will of each individual. Moral values require an agreement among a majority to be sustainable, but they're not handed down from some magical place. It is more to do with the limitations on what civilisations are practically possible. That's why moral systems are constantly in flux, the debate and discussion never stops. Good thing too or we'd still be sacrificing people on altars.

Saying morals are transcendent is just a way to sneak jesus into a conversation

I am not trying to sneak anything

I am Catholic and i do not hide this

You listed secular humanism along with all societies major evils dude.

When it is secular humanism that civilised the fucking western world

Secular humanism is the height of mans arogance

and no

lol we're still talking about this? I left, ate dinner and came back

Every inch of moral progress for centuries has had to move against the objections of religious permanence. That is the reality of it.

lol

what was the argument against slavery

@Roarey fite me

What was the argument FOR it?

Industry

it was accepted by all societies across all mankind

One doesn't find objections to slavery in scripture

Lol

Check again