good guys with a gun affect 3% of armed confrontation and probably stop another 10% more for simply existing, but there are ways, I belive we can make this tragedy get better while still maintaining the second amendement right.

^^now remove all the big *democrat run* cities and we drop almost to the bottom

this article disagree's with the 3% to 10% statistic, says that: Criminologist and researcher Gary Kleck, using his own commissioned phone surveys and number extrapolation, estimates that Americans use guns for defensive purposes 1.2 million times each year — and that 1 in 6 Americans who have used guns defensively believe someone would have died but for their ability to resort to their defensive use of firearms. Twenty years ago economist John Lott, author of “More Guns, Less Crime,” and his research partner wrote: “We find that allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons deters violent crimes and it appears to produce no increase in accidental deaths. If those states which did not have right-to-carry concealed gun provisions had adopted them in 1992, approximately 1,570 murders; 4,177 rapes; and over 60,000 aggravated assaults would have been avoided yearly.”
https://www.capitalismmagazine.com/2019/04/how-many-lives-are-saved-by-guns-and-why-dont-gun-controllers-care/

As for determining how many lives are saved by guns, regulations bar the CDC from conducting original research of the defensive use of firearms. But after the Sandy Hook school massacre in 2012, President Barack Obama issued an executive order allowing the agency to review existing studies on causes of and ways to reduce gun violence. As to defensives uses of guns, the CDC report said, “Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies. … Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.”

article also goes on to say that the input of waiting periods for gun purchases did nothing to lower the crime rate or suicide rate

@Zilla yes car deaths kill a lot of people 32,000 in 2019, compared to 40,000 gun homicides in the same year. but that auto number used to be much high, but it was brought down by bi paritisen safety laws, thing we could use to help combat this tragedy. also you knife statistic is misleading. acording to the FBI 297 were killed by *rifles* compared to 1545 killed by knives, but guns, also in 2019, killed 38,000.

One thing i will never understand is why AR15s are being targeted even though more crimes related to firearms are done with handguns

and the input of gun safety mandates have done nothing to lower the gun homicides, also Homicide is a very vague term as it just means to kill someone it doesnt specifiy how one were killed, meaning they lump in defensive uses of guns in with intent to murder statistics to bloat the amount of gun deaths per year

it also lumps police use of firearms to kill a criminal in the statistics as well

further bloating it

As a complete category in the FBI statistics, all firearms accounted for 10,265 of the 14,123 murders assessed for the year 2018. homicide rates would go down, and as to the impulse buying does nothing . . . when vt and ct input a waiting time their guns homicides dropped considerably

no it didnt

homicide rates are not affected by putting a simple waiting period on the sales of an object

exept when people cannot impulse buy a murder weapon

@chaz At best you are uninformed and parrotting. At worst you are trolling.

thing is, if someone buying a gun with the intent for murder, they arent gonna mass buy 3-6 guns, they're only going to buy one and quickly dispose of it after the deed us done

Ive read your posts. It looks more like trolling

@jerpeau you know I like Zilla, because he gives me good evidence and tells me, when I am wrong, why I am wrong. you on the other hand offer nothing productive to this conversation

Im offering you the chance to quit trolling. Kinda my job

> thing is, if someone buying a gun with the intent for murder, they arent gonna mass buy 3-6 guns, they're only going to buy one and quickly dispose of it after the deed us done
@Zilla or you know, get a hammer or knife

yeah

hell, more murders have been committed with people's bare hands then firearms

@jerpeau and I am not trolling, I am offering my honest and maluable and honest opinion. I am sorry if it offends you.

@ThiccSpicyGenderRevealParty that is true, but, waiting times lower the number of second degree gun homicides as it prevents someone form getting a gun quickly

@ThiccSpicyGenderRevealParty @Zilla heres a FBI stat "As a complete category in the FBI statistics, all firearms accounted for 10,265 of the 14,123 murders assessed for the year 2018." so how do those number work if more are killed by hammer and knifes. A common and valid argument is knives kill more than rifles, in which catagory is the AR-15, discrediting the idea that our problems would be fixed if the AR-15 was not sold anymore.

while yes you're not exactly wrong as the wait time stops the person from immediately getting a gun and therefore, gets them to stop and think for a second, for lack of a better term, if that person is angry enough or has a big enough problem with a person to want to kill them, the wait time will not help as they will try to kill them some other way, in fact, it will be detrimental considering if the person being targeted thinks their life is in danger, they'll also try to buy a firearm and because of the wait time, they might be dead or have been attacked by the time that period ends

Maybe you guys should move this convo to <#720484562400051201>. It's kinda off topic here

@ThiccSpicyGenderRevealParty It will not stop premeditated murder, but it will stop the person who has to think for a second. @Porcupioneer I will, I just don't like having gun disscusion there because that channel is too wholesome

> @ThiccSpicyGenderRevealParty It will not stop premeditated murder, but it will stop the person who has to think for a second. @Porcupioneer I will, I just don't like having gun disscusion there because that channel is too wholesome
@chaz The channel for guns is too wholesome for a discussion about guns?

@jerpeau it is a channel for the sharing and mutual love of a hobby, I do not want to discuss the legality of that hobby in that channel. it would be impolite

Well, the same logic could be applied to here. Except you're not talking history. And it is actually for all discussions concerning guns. It's a slightly more rare subject so it is frequently used to share images for the, as you put it, "mutual love of a hobby". It is also the channel where you will find many experts on the subject who have done their research as well. It is the best place to go in order to present a sound argument.

No more off topic discussion here please. This is <#763630830249181184>.

Lutzen is the worst defeat that two opposing armies ever achieved

Fun Fact of the Day: Pearl Harbor wasn't the only incident involving the Japanese on American Soil, The Aleutian Islands Campaign was series of military campaigns in the Aleutian Islands between the US and the Japanese, although the Japanese gave up on that, and left, leading to several friendly fire incidents between the US and Canadian Forces, who thought they were shooting at Japanese soldiers, due to the thick fog that covered the island

and they were building submersible aircraft carries at the end to take the war to us

These statistics and death toll are completely irrelevant because ultimately, a citizen has a *moral right* to keep and bear arms. There will always be a death toll one way or another because human nature is fallen, that's reality.

You don't get to solve that by offering more restrictions save a background check.

In postmodern society, gun violence is higher than knife violence, but in non modern society, the opposite would be true; both society's citizens have a moral right to keep and bear arms regardless of the death trends.

https://fee.org/articles/gun-rights-don-t-depend-on-statistics/
This article explains this better.

@Smash Boy this is true, guns are an American right, but I come from a texan family of engineers and we have a saying, "it can always be better"

No it cannot "always be better". Read the article: The right to bear arms is a modal necessity from the right to life, you don't "better" rights by doing things that inevitably infringe upon it as a result.